4 ms·

"When I Google “kinkajou,” I get a list of websites, ranked according to an algorithm that takes into account all sorts of factors that correlate with relevance

by aftbit 11y ago

"When I Google “kinkajou,” I get a list of websites, ranked according to an algorithm that takes into account all sorts of factors that correlate with relevance and authority. I choose the information source I prefer, then visit its website directly—an experience that could help to further shade or inform my impression of its trustworthiness." While the Google experience is certainly more direct than the Alexa experience, you're still allowing Google to filter and order your search results. Check out the "filter bubble" if you haven't heard of it before. The HN title, "Terrifyingly Convenient", hits the problem on the head. As long as technology users broadly continue to sacrifice security, privacy, and choice for basic convenience, these sorts of issues will continue occurring. There's a potentially very dark future ahead of us where all of our choices are made by entrenched mega-corporations who see us as nothing but a source of revenue. "CONSUME!"

walterbell 11y ago
> There's a potentially very dark future ahead of us where all of our choices are made by entrenched mega-corporations who see us as nothing but a source of revenue. How about corporations who see us as nothing but a source of data, not even as customers? http://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/debatten/the-digital-debate/shoshana-zuboff-secrets-of-surveillance-capitalism-14103616.html?printPagedArticle=true http://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/debatten/the-digital-d... & https://vimeo.com/110222526 https://vimeo.com/110222526 "While advertisers have been the dominant buyers in the early history of this new kind of marketplace, there is no substantive reason why such markets should be limited to this group. The already visible trend is that any actor with an interest in monetizing probabilistic information about our behavior and/or influencing future behavior can pay to play in a marketplace where the behavioral fortunes of individuals, groups, bodies, and things are told and sold. This is how in our own lifetimes we observe capitalism shifting under our gaze: once profits from products and services, then profits from speculation, and now profits from surveillance."
Joof 11y ago
We're largely there already; it's just not obvious because it's incredibly ingrained in our culture. We've been there. One aspect of brands selling people an 'identity' (think apple or more profoundly, rolls royce). That's the consumer culture everyone hears so much about. Companies have larger weight in American government than people do. Lobbyists and campaign contributions go a long way. Aaron Schwartz became dedicated to campaign finance reform for precisely this reason. Part of the problem (and part of the solution to that problem) is that large scale companies must always optimize for money. They can care about certain things more, but still must optimize for money. Sometimes this benefits the general public, but sometimes it works against them too. Decoupling industry from politics may be a good idea; we can give more weight to what is good for people than what is good for companies. Although politicians like Trump make me think that might not be ideal either :P.
DyslexicAtheist 11y ago
"CONSUME!" this immediately made me think of the clockwork orange scene where they forced the guy to watch the propaganda videos: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=clock+work+orange+eyes+preyed+open&iax=1&ia=images https://duckduckgo.com/?q=clock+work+orange+eyes+preyed+open... same scene could be used to describe how watching news in general forces us to be afraid. Like a person constantly screaming into our face: "BE AFRAID!"
GabrielF00 11y ago
I think the premise of the writer's concern is that people who would otherwise be doing more critical reading (looking seriously at the source of the information they're getting, exploring different sources, etc.) are just going to accept what's spoonfed to them. I don't think that's valid, because I think people are using Alexa only for very casual research - the equivalent of reading the box at the top of a Google query or the first paragraph of a Wikipedia article, or pulling a reference book off a shelf and reading a few sentences, in other words, cases where you wouldn't be doing much critical reading anyway. Voice interfaces don't make a lot of sense for doing serious research, it takes a long time to read text out loud, you can't skim, or skip things, etc. They're great for things like getting a definition of a dictionary word without looking up from your book, or settling a bet about the population of Ireland.
lallysingh 11y ago
> As long as technology users broadly continue to sacrifice security, privacy, and choice for basic convenience, these sorts of issues will continue occurring. (Note: I'm not attacking or critiquing your comment, just attempting to show another scope) I'll point out that the same argument applies for living in a city vs a suburb vs out in the country. It's a very very old dynamic, and sometimes people get ensnared, and we have to be careful. For example, countries where you need an exit visa to leave. But like the meatspace equivalent, there's likely to be different situations simultaneously for different populations. With an ebb and flow between them and between more or less free choice.
MaysonL 11y ago
Ah, the "filter bubble". It became terrifyingly real to me when I read a blog post by Dave Winer exulting in the fact that his "Fargo" program had reached the first page of Google results. When I googled it, his program was nowhere to be found on the first few pages. Hmm… I now use DuckDuckGo for most of my searching, and !g for almost all of the rest.

by aftbit 11y ago

walterbell 11y ago

> There's a potentially very dark future ahead of us where all of our choices are made by entrenched mega-corporations who see us as nothing but a source of revenue. How about corporations who see us as nothing but a source of data, not even as customers? http://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/debatten/the-digital-debate/shoshana-zuboff-secrets-of-surveillance-capitalism-14103616.html?printPagedArticle=true http://www.faz.net/aktuell/feuilleton/debatten/the-digital-d... & https://vimeo.com/110222526 https://vimeo.com/110222526 "While advertisers have been the dominant buyers in the early history of this new kind of marketplace, there is no substantive reason why such markets should be limited to this group. The already visible trend is that any actor with an interest in monetizing probabilistic information about our behavior and/or influencing future behavior can pay to play in a marketplace where the behavioral fortunes of individuals, groups, bodies, and things are told and sold. This is how in our own lifetimes we observe capitalism shifting under our gaze: once profits from products and services, then profits from speculation, and now profits from surveillance."

Joof 11y ago

We're largely there already; it's just not obvious because it's incredibly ingrained in our culture. We've been there. One aspect of brands selling people an 'identity' (think apple or more profoundly, rolls royce). That's the consumer culture everyone hears so much about. Companies have larger weight in American government than people do. Lobbyists and campaign contributions go a long way. Aaron Schwartz became dedicated to campaign finance reform for precisely this reason. Part of the problem (and part of the solution to that problem) is that large scale companies must always optimize for money. They can care about certain things more, but still must optimize for money. Sometimes this benefits the general public, but sometimes it works against them too. Decoupling industry from politics may be a good idea; we can give more weight to what is good for people than what is good for companies. Although politicians like Trump make me think that might not be ideal either :P.

DyslexicAtheist 11y ago

"CONSUME!" this immediately made me think of the clockwork orange scene where they forced the guy to watch the propaganda videos: https://duckduckgo.com/?q=clock+work+orange+eyes+preyed+open&iax=1&ia=images https://duckduckgo.com/?q=clock+work+orange+eyes+preyed+open... same scene could be used to describe how watching news in general forces us to be afraid. Like a person constantly screaming into our face: "BE AFRAID!"

GabrielF00 11y ago

I think the premise of the writer's concern is that people who would otherwise be doing more critical reading (looking seriously at the source of the information they're getting, exploring different sources, etc.) are just going to accept what's spoonfed to them. I don't think that's valid, because I think people are using Alexa only for very casual research - the equivalent of reading the box at the top of a Google query or the first paragraph of a Wikipedia article, or pulling a reference book off a shelf and reading a few sentences, in other words, cases where you wouldn't be doing much critical reading anyway. Voice interfaces don't make a lot of sense for doing serious research, it takes a long time to read text out loud, you can't skim, or skip things, etc. They're great for things like getting a definition of a dictionary word without looking up from your book, or settling a bet about the population of Ireland.

lallysingh 11y ago

> As long as technology users broadly continue to sacrifice security, privacy, and choice for basic convenience, these sorts of issues will continue occurring. (Note: I'm not attacking or critiquing your comment, just attempting to show another scope) I'll point out that the same argument applies for living in a city vs a suburb vs out in the country. It's a very very old dynamic, and sometimes people get ensnared, and we have to be careful. For example, countries where you need an exit visa to leave. But like the meatspace equivalent, there's likely to be different situations simultaneously for different populations. With an ebb and flow between them and between more or less free choice.

MaysonL 11y ago

Ah, the "filter bubble". It became terrifyingly real to me when I read a blog post by Dave Winer exulting in the fact that his "Fargo" program had reached the first page of Google results. When I googled it, his program was nowhere to be found on the first few pages. Hmm… I now use DuckDuckGo for most of my searching, and !g for almost all of the rest.