3 ms·

Same

by wund 10y ago

Same

leereeves 10y ago
And the people who buy food at a supermarket instead of hunting/growing it, or buy clothes instead of sewing, ... We all employ others to do things for us, some people just do so with fewer middlepeople.
- wund 10y ago
  It doesn't need to be black and white, and in that regard I don't think secretaries are essential.
  - wtbob 10y ago
    > in that regard I don't think secretaries are essential. Ah, now we've gotten to the very nut of it: you don't think that secretaries are essential. Never mind that the sort of folks who employ them seem to think that they are: you, who aren't in their position, don't, and that's enough. I'm reminded of pg's famous essay on the Blub Paradox. Programmers who use a semi-powerful language can see that others are less powerful than theirs, but can't see that more powerful languages offer anything much. Likewise, folks at one level of society can easily see that it makes sense to hire others to grow their food and make their clothes, but can't see that it makes sense for others at other levels to hire people to manage their schedules and correspondence. A good secretary is a lever for a decision-maker.
    - wund 10y ago
      You aren't in the position of the secretary and that's enough. If I know advanced programming languages, what features they offer, what problems they are aimed to solve and most importantly what drawbacks these features have while interacting with each other and still prefer simpler languages since they force you to think in simpler terms and reduce the problem to it's very basic which usually makes your program much clearer to other people, how does that make me a bad programmer? And most importantly, what does this have to do with what I say?
  - muddylemon 10y ago
    well, not for you
  - pfortuny 10y ago
    Humans tend to act by convenience not necessity. This enlightened me a while ago.
  - mcphage 10y ago
    > I don't think secretaries are essential. I'm sorry you think the many people employed as secretaries should lose their jobs because you think their job is "unessential", but that attitude is patronizing and demeaning to the people who hold those positions. This world isn't about you, and you you have neither the right nor the authority to tell them how to live their lives.
    - herbiv 10y ago
      Maybe they should be given a choice to work or not, and not by threatening them with hunger or homelessness. Good luck trying to do that.
      - TeMPOraL 10y ago
        Then why not give that choice to everyone else as well? Most of us are working because we're being "threatened with hunger or homelessness". I think it's bad and as a civilization we're reaching the level when we could - and should - end that, but that is a completely orthogonal topic to whether or not secretaries have important jobs.
coldtea 10y ago
Which means you have an issue with people doing paid work in general, not Knuth in particular. I guess you never buy anything too -- or have people e.g. build your house, or the street cleaners take your garbage, the taxi driver to drive you etc.

Same

by wund 10y ago

Same

And the people who buy food at a supermarket instead of hunting/growing it, or buy clothes instead of sewing, ... We all employ others to do things for us, some people just do so with fewer middlepeople.

wund 10y ago
It doesn't need to be black and white, and in that regard I don't think secretaries are essential.
- wtbob 10y ago
  > in that regard I don't think secretaries are essential. Ah, now we've gotten to the very nut of it: you don't think that secretaries are essential. Never mind that the sort of folks who employ them seem to think that they are: you, who aren't in their position, don't, and that's enough. I'm reminded of pg's famous essay on the Blub Paradox. Programmers who use a semi-powerful language can see that others are less powerful than theirs, but can't see that more powerful languages offer anything much. Likewise, folks at one level of society can easily see that it makes sense to hire others to grow their food and make their clothes, but can't see that it makes sense for others at other levels to hire people to manage their schedules and correspondence. A good secretary is a lever for a decision-maker.
  - wund 10y ago
    You aren't in the position of the secretary and that's enough. If I know advanced programming languages, what features they offer, what problems they are aimed to solve and most importantly what drawbacks these features have while interacting with each other and still prefer simpler languages since they force you to think in simpler terms and reduce the problem to it's very basic which usually makes your program much clearer to other people, how does that make me a bad programmer? And most importantly, what does this have to do with what I say?
- muddylemon 10y ago
  well, not for you
- pfortuny 10y ago
  Humans tend to act by convenience not necessity. This enlightened me a while ago.
- mcphage 10y ago
  > I don't think secretaries are essential. I'm sorry you think the many people employed as secretaries should lose their jobs because you think their job is "unessential", but that attitude is patronizing and demeaning to the people who hold those positions. This world isn't about you, and you you have neither the right nor the authority to tell them how to live their lives.
  - herbiv 10y ago
    Maybe they should be given a choice to work or not, and not by threatening them with hunger or homelessness. Good luck trying to do that.
    - TeMPOraL 10y ago
      Then why not give that choice to everyone else as well? Most of us are working because we're being "threatened with hunger or homelessness". I think it's bad and as a civilization we're reaching the level when we could - and should - end that, but that is a completely orthogonal topic to whether or not secretaries have important jobs.

coldtea 10y ago

Which means you have an issue with people doing paid work in general, not Knuth in particular. I guess you never buy anything too -- or have people e.g. build your house, or the street cleaners take your garbage, the taxi driver to drive you etc.