5 ms·

I mean coming from Canada, both countries require a visa. It's the same the other way around, but the EU is pressuring Canada apparently to offer visa free tra

by Kequc 11y ago

I mean coming from Canada, both countries require a visa. It's the same the other way around, but the EU is pressuring Canada apparently to offer visa free travel to them both. Why wouldn't such a thing be worked out between the individual countries involved.

germanier 11y ago
Because the EU member states decided to lift this issue to the EU level via Council Regulation (EC) No 539/2001. The EU is about harmonizing legislation after all and regulating external borders is a very important part of what the EU does.
- Kequc 11y ago
  > regulating external borders is a very important part of what the EU does. Whoa man. Lets not open up that can of worms here, lets try and keep the topic about Canada eh/ I think telling another country who they must allow visa free travel to is similar to telling them what laws they need to follow. Canada isn't a member of the EU, there never was any such agreement. An EU council regulation should have little to do with them.
  - germanier 11y ago
    Visa-free entry is usually done on a reciprocal basis, i.e. two countries decide that each others citizens can enter visa free. The EU member states decided that they only enter into such an agreement if there are similar agreements with all other member states. Nobody here tells Canada what to do. They only say that if Canadian citizens should be let without a visa into the EU, they must allow all EU citizens visa-free entry.
    - Kequc 11y ago
      I pointed out in my first post that the countries in questions have their own borders. The "EU" isn't an entity you reciprocate visa free travel from and to. Some member states of the EU, don't share the same visa rules as other member states. Such as in this case here. Why am I expected to talk in circles with you.
      - germanier 11y ago
        This is the clearest I can put it: Parties A and B want to enter into an agreement. B will only do so under condition X. Party B is free to state any conditions they want just as A is free to not accept them. Now substitute "Canada" for A, "Germany"/"France"/"Sweden"/... for B and "Enter a similar agreement with these other 25 countries" for X and you get the current situation. The EU member states decided to make this a condition to all their reciprocal visa agreements. If Canada thinks that's not fair they can withdraw from the reciprocal visa agreements.
      - vidarh 11y ago
        > The "EU" isn't an entity you reciprocate visa free travel from and to. The EU has decided that it is, with the exception of the UK and Ireland which has specific opt-outs from Schengen. Whether the EU will stick to that or not, the point is that the visa policy of all EU members other than the UK and Ireland is set at EU level. Some non-Schengen EU members have still not fully harmonized their visa rules, but they are expected to, and the issue here is that the principles of Schengen visa policy is reciprocity, and then Canada's lack of willingness to reciprocate becomes a problem.
    - klipt 11y ago
      > Visa-free entry is usually done on a reciprocal basis There are plenty of countries to which EU citizens have visa free access, but whose citizens aren't allowed into the EU visa free. Somehow in all its talk of reciprocity the EU never mentions those. Would be interesting if those countries start demanding reciprocity from the EU too, or start charging EU citizens for visas.
      - germanier 11y ago
        This is usually done because the country thinks it's beneficial for them, e.g. more tourists or easier access for people doing business. Those one-sided decisions can be ended at any time and the EU has no power to demand those nor does it. Those are not mentioned because they are not relevant to this discussion. Canada could still over visa-free access for Germans even if Canadians required visa for Canadians because they refuse to offer access for Bulgarians. It's just unlikely that it happens.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]

by Kequc 11y ago

germanier 11y ago

Because the EU member states decided to lift this issue to the EU level via Council Regulation (EC) No 539/2001. The EU is about harmonizing legislation after all and regulating external borders is a very important part of what the EU does.

Kequc 11y ago
> regulating external borders is a very important part of what the EU does. Whoa man. Lets not open up that can of worms here, lets try and keep the topic about Canada eh/ I think telling another country who they must allow visa free travel to is similar to telling them what laws they need to follow. Canada isn't a member of the EU, there never was any such agreement. An EU council regulation should have little to do with them.
- germanier 11y ago
  Visa-free entry is usually done on a reciprocal basis, i.e. two countries decide that each others citizens can enter visa free. The EU member states decided that they only enter into such an agreement if there are similar agreements with all other member states. Nobody here tells Canada what to do. They only say that if Canadian citizens should be let without a visa into the EU, they must allow all EU citizens visa-free entry.
  - Kequc 11y ago
    I pointed out in my first post that the countries in questions have their own borders. The "EU" isn't an entity you reciprocate visa free travel from and to. Some member states of the EU, don't share the same visa rules as other member states. Such as in this case here. Why am I expected to talk in circles with you.
    - germanier 11y ago
      This is the clearest I can put it: Parties A and B want to enter into an agreement. B will only do so under condition X. Party B is free to state any conditions they want just as A is free to not accept them. Now substitute "Canada" for A, "Germany"/"France"/"Sweden"/... for B and "Enter a similar agreement with these other 25 countries" for X and you get the current situation. The EU member states decided to make this a condition to all their reciprocal visa agreements. If Canada thinks that's not fair they can withdraw from the reciprocal visa agreements.
    - vidarh 11y ago
      > The "EU" isn't an entity you reciprocate visa free travel from and to. The EU has decided that it is, with the exception of the UK and Ireland which has specific opt-outs from Schengen. Whether the EU will stick to that or not, the point is that the visa policy of all EU members other than the UK and Ireland is set at EU level. Some non-Schengen EU members have still not fully harmonized their visa rules, but they are expected to, and the issue here is that the principles of Schengen visa policy is reciprocity, and then Canada's lack of willingness to reciprocate becomes a problem.
  - klipt 11y ago
    > Visa-free entry is usually done on a reciprocal basis There are plenty of countries to which EU citizens have visa free access, but whose citizens aren't allowed into the EU visa free. Somehow in all its talk of reciprocity the EU never mentions those. Would be interesting if those countries start demanding reciprocity from the EU too, or start charging EU citizens for visas.
    - germanier 11y ago
      This is usually done because the country thinks it's beneficial for them, e.g. more tourists or easier access for people doing business. Those one-sided decisions can be ended at any time and the EU has no power to demand those nor does it. Those are not mentioned because they are not relevant to this discussion. Canada could still over visa-free access for Germans even if Canadians required visa for Canadians because they refuse to offer access for Bulgarians. It's just unlikely that it happens.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]