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I'm not sure why the Romanian & Bulgarian issue is being mentioned. Another part of it is Canadians and Americans have access to the EU where you can just get

I'm not sure why the Romanian & Bulgarian issue is being mentioned. Another part of it is Canadians and Americans have access to the EU where you can just get there without forms or paying anything whereas you have to fill in a silly form and pay a bit of cash to go the other way. Semantically it's not termed a visa but it's just like one so this is the EU trying to put in a silly form and small payment as a reciprocal measure.

officialchicken 11y ago
> and pay a bit of cash to go the other way. Citation, please? Travel/tourist visas for visitors staying less than 90 days may use the Visa Waiver Program [0] to enter the USA free of charge. [0] https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/visit/visa-waiver-program.html https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/visit/visa-waiver-...
- 0x0 11y ago
  It costs $14 to apply for an ESTA online which is a pre-requisite to use the VWP, and you have to renew it for another $14 every 2 years or when your passport is renewed, whichever comes first. https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1072/kw/esta/ https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1072/kw/esta/
- akhatri_aus 11y ago
  There's a $14 fee to the US, $7 to Canada alongside the form. [0] http://www.cbp.gov/travel/international-visitors/frequently-asked-questions-about-visa-waiver-program-vwp-and-electronic-system-travel http://www.cbp.gov/travel/international-visitors/frequently-... [1] http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=1056&top=16 http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=1056...
  - klipt 11y ago
    Yeah an actual US tourist visa costs $160 (plus any reciprocity fees), $14 is peanuts by comparison.
    - akhatri_aus 11y ago
      This may be so but the issue is more that the EU has no fees and no form for US or Canadian citizens which is absolutely nothing compared to peanuts.
      - klipt 11y ago
        So start charging Americans $14 to enter the EU, I'm sure they won't care.
  - officialchicken 11y ago
    Good to know - the fee are paid to DHS - and not the State Department, which actually issues the visa.
  - alister 11y ago
    The fees are small and perhaps the form itself is simple, but something that bureaucrats never seem to consider is how much documentation you have to read and understand before you can pay the fee and fill the form. The FAQ from the US site runs to 6023 words of dense language. If you're not completely fluent in English, you're not going to understand every nuance. And this is just the FAQ. The Canadian site is similarly lacking empathy for human beings. For example, it says, "Canadian citizens, including dual citizens, and Canadian permanent residents are not eligible to apply for an eTA." While this is technically correct, why couldn't they have phrased it as, Canadian citizens, including dual citizens, and Canadian permanent residents do not an eTA and should not apply for one. That would have been much easier to understand.
- deleted 11y ago
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- deleted 11y ago
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- vidarh 11y ago
  The visa waiver program does not cover all EU countries.
  - mavdi 11y ago
    Or all EU citizens of the eligible countries: https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/158 https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/158
klipt 11y ago
You've clearly never applied for an American visa. Filling a "silly form and paying a bit of cash" is way more convenient than having to make a consular appointment, pay $$$ for that appointment, go there early in the morning on a workday to avoid long lines, still wait an hour, get grilled by a consular officer, pay more $$$ for your approved visa, and have to wait days for them to mail your passport back.
- akhatri_aus 11y ago
  Yes that's true, but this is also about Canada & the USs silly form on EU citizens whereas there is nothing the other way. Bulgaria, Romania & Poland have high overstay rates (above 2%) despite having a high visa refusal rate. If they were part of the Visa Waiver Program it would make them the worst offenders.
  - klipt 11y ago
    Meanwhile the overstay rate for my passport is lower than many visa waiver countries, but we're not even considered for visa waiver because we're not part of Europe. It's about politics, not logic.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
  - 21 11y ago
    How does what your are saying (high overstay rates) go with the current fact that thousands of people are crossing the Mexican border into the US and apparently the US is ok with that? I'm not against that, but I find it highly hypocritical for the US on one hand to require visas from RO/BG people (and maybe others) on overstaying concerns, while on another hand allowing free flow into US from the Mexican side.
    - akhatri_aus 11y ago
      It's a question of enforceability. If the requirement on Mexicans were tougher they would use the porous borders more. The weather can't be dictated by a piece of paper and a pen.
flexie 11y ago
Are you kidding? Entering the US as European requires filling out long forms (days in advance), weird questions, finger prints, eye scan etc.
- akhatri_aus 11y ago
  Yes exactly, i'm not kidding! Entering the EU as a Canadian or as an American has no forms before and is free. You just book your ticket and go.., if you're unlucky at worst a 1 minute conversation with a border official. That is what the EU finds that the easiness of the EU's version of entry is not reciprocated
- laurencerowe 11y ago
  IIRC the questions asked when applying for an ESTA are not really different to the ones that used to be asked on the old paper forms you filled out on the plane and handed to the immigration official.
NetStrikeForce 11y ago
If you're a Romanian citizen living in another country, you'll have to fly back to Bucharest (even if you've never been there before) for an appointment at the US Embassy there, show your papers including flight tickets and hotel reservation, come back to the UK to move on with your life and then wait for an answer. If you're lucky and get approved, you might also be double lucky and get the approval before the actual trip happens. It's not impossible, but it is far away from filing a silly form and paying a bit of cash.

officialchicken 11y ago

> and pay a bit of cash to go the other way. Citation, please? Travel/tourist visas for visitors staying less than 90 days may use the Visa Waiver Program [0] to enter the USA free of charge. [0] https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/visit/visa-waiver-program.html https://travel.state.gov/content/visas/en/visit/visa-waiver-...

0x0 11y ago
It costs $14 to apply for an ESTA online which is a pre-requisite to use the VWP, and you have to renew it for another $14 every 2 years or when your passport is renewed, whichever comes first. https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1072/kw/esta/ https://help.cbp.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/1072/kw/esta/
akhatri_aus 11y ago
There's a $14 fee to the US, $7 to Canada alongside the form. [0] http://www.cbp.gov/travel/international-visitors/frequently-asked-questions-about-visa-waiver-program-vwp-and-electronic-system-travel http://www.cbp.gov/travel/international-visitors/frequently-... [1] http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=1056&top=16 http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/helpcentre/answer.asp?qnum=1056...
- klipt 11y ago
  Yeah an actual US tourist visa costs $160 (plus any reciprocity fees), $14 is peanuts by comparison.
  - akhatri_aus 11y ago
    This may be so but the issue is more that the EU has no fees and no form for US or Canadian citizens which is absolutely nothing compared to peanuts.
    - klipt 11y ago
      So start charging Americans $14 to enter the EU, I'm sure they won't care.
- officialchicken 11y ago
  Good to know - the fee are paid to DHS - and not the State Department, which actually issues the visa.
- alister 11y ago
  The fees are small and perhaps the form itself is simple, but something that bureaucrats never seem to consider is how much documentation you have to read and understand before you can pay the fee and fill the form. The FAQ from the US site runs to 6023 words of dense language. If you're not completely fluent in English, you're not going to understand every nuance. And this is just the FAQ. The Canadian site is similarly lacking empathy for human beings. For example, it says, "Canadian citizens, including dual citizens, and Canadian permanent residents are not eligible to apply for an eTA." While this is technically correct, why couldn't they have phrased it as, Canadian citizens, including dual citizens, and Canadian permanent residents do not an eTA and should not apply for one. That would have been much easier to understand.
deleted 11y ago
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deleted 11y ago
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vidarh 11y ago
The visa waiver program does not cover all EU countries.
- mavdi 11y ago
  Or all EU citizens of the eligible countries: https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/158 https://www.congress.gov/bill/114th-congress/house-bill/158

klipt 11y ago

You've clearly never applied for an American visa. Filling a "silly form and paying a bit of cash" is way more convenient than having to make a consular appointment, pay $$$ for that appointment, go there early in the morning on a workday to avoid long lines, still wait an hour, get grilled by a consular officer, pay more $$$ for your approved visa, and have to wait days for them to mail your passport back.

akhatri_aus 11y ago
Yes that's true, but this is also about Canada & the USs silly form on EU citizens whereas there is nothing the other way. Bulgaria, Romania & Poland have high overstay rates (above 2%) despite having a high visa refusal rate. If they were part of the Visa Waiver Program it would make them the worst offenders.
- klipt 11y ago
  Meanwhile the overstay rate for my passport is lower than many visa waiver countries, but we're not even considered for visa waiver because we're not part of Europe. It's about politics, not logic.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- 21 11y ago
  How does what your are saying (high overstay rates) go with the current fact that thousands of people are crossing the Mexican border into the US and apparently the US is ok with that? I'm not against that, but I find it highly hypocritical for the US on one hand to require visas from RO/BG people (and maybe others) on overstaying concerns, while on another hand allowing free flow into US from the Mexican side.
  - akhatri_aus 11y ago
    It's a question of enforceability. If the requirement on Mexicans were tougher they would use the porous borders more. The weather can't be dictated by a piece of paper and a pen.

flexie 11y ago

Are you kidding? Entering the US as European requires filling out long forms (days in advance), weird questions, finger prints, eye scan etc.

akhatri_aus 11y ago
Yes exactly, i'm not kidding! Entering the EU as a Canadian or as an American has no forms before and is free. You just book your ticket and go.., if you're unlucky at worst a 1 minute conversation with a border official. That is what the EU finds that the easiness of the EU's version of entry is not reciprocated
laurencerowe 11y ago
IIRC the questions asked when applying for an ESTA are not really different to the ones that used to be asked on the old paper forms you filled out on the plane and handed to the immigration official.

NetStrikeForce 11y ago

If you're a Romanian citizen living in another country, you'll have to fly back to Bucharest (even if you've never been there before) for an appointment at the US Embassy there, show your papers including flight tickets and hotel reservation, come back to the UK to move on with your life and then wait for an answer. If you're lucky and get approved, you might also be double lucky and get the approval before the actual trip happens. It's not impossible, but it is far away from filing a silly form and paying a bit of cash.