4 ms·

IPhone developers angry as Apple purges adult apps

pmichaud 17y ago
Of course Apple is free to do whatever with it's platform, but it's a little suicidal to change the rules out from under the people who make your platform worthwhile by creating its content. A couple more shifts like that might cause a big migration away from the app store by companies who don't think it's such a great investment when the rug might be pulled out arbitrarily and without warning.
- swannodette 17y ago
  You mean a big migration away from the app store of companies that make boob jiggling apps.
  - pmichaud 17y ago
    Not at all. What I mean is that if I invest in a platform, I expect the rules to stay roughly the same so I can hope to make a fairly predictable return on my investment. If Apple creates a track record for itself of saying things like: Even though there are X,XXX companies developing porn apps (which we approved), we're going to stop allowing those arbitrarily, right now. Or what about: gee, we'd really like to get in on retail banking, so money related apps, those are out. Or how about, we want to partner with acme social media company, so any apps that interact with facebook, those are out. My point is that they can do this once to the porn guys and just piss the porn guys off. If they do it again, to another group, that will and should scare the shit out of the entire developer population, because who's next?
technomancy 17y ago
> And worst of all it is not a secure source of income. It can drop to close to zero if they decide to change the rules That's what single-vendor reliance _means_, genius. Should have thought about this up front before deciding to base your livelihood on someone else's caprice.
DanielBMarkham 17y ago
This sound sensationalist, and I apologize for the tone, but it's almost like we've entered a new era of white-collar serfdom. The big conglomerates create the walled gardens, tell us where to till, decide what's acceptable conduct or not, treat certain serfs with favoritism, and get the best cut off the top. Sure you're free to go anywhere, but if the future really is app stores, what does that freedom amount to?
- ZeroGravitas 17y ago
  Tim Bray called it being a Sharecropper back in 2003 http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2003/07/12/WebsThePlace http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2003/07/12/WebsThePla...
- jsz0 17y ago
  There are some good reasons users flock to App Stores. Security, compatibility, ease-of-use, eas-of-installation, etc. Free markets should focus on solving these problems while maintaining their free market if they want to compete.
  - c1sc0 17y ago
    There are some good reasons developers flock to App Stores. App Stores take care of all kinds of annoying stuff developers don't really care about like distribution, payment, a little marketing. What is wrong is greedy developers of trivial apps mistaking a lucky strike for a stable source of income.
credo 17y ago
imo it makes sense for Apple to ban what they describe as "degarding and objectionable" content. If they don't want to provide a platform for the objectification of women, good for them. imo, the one thing Apple should do is provide more clarity and transparency about the rules for the app store - i.e. what is allowed, what is not allowed, why an app was rejected etc. That will help developers decide whether or not to build any specific app for the app store.
huhtenberg 17y ago
A more interesting question if it made iPhone _users_ angry, and I really doubt it did. Having these apps in the App Store is like having porn and adult toys section in a department store. Technically, there is nothing wrong with, but practically it does leave a bad impression and ultimately reflects poorly on a brand.
- watmough 17y ago
  As I commented elsewhere in the thread, people will avoid situations they are uncomfortable with. If app store searches fill up with sex apps, then less people will be interested in searching and buying.
- jrockway 17y ago
  Maybe in farm towns in the US. In the rest of the world, people actually appear to like sex.
  - bmj 17y ago
    Enjoying sex and looking at porn are very different things.
    - jrockway 17y ago
      Really? I thought God hated both...
  - huhtenberg 17y ago
    OK. Then name a US department store chain that carries sex toys. Bonus points for an upscale department store, which is what Apple wants App Store to be. For all practical intents and purposes the US (and not say liberally minded Sweden) is the App Store market. And point being is that in the US there is an expectation of porn and adult stuff not to be mixed with the "general purpose" goods at the retail outlets.
    - jonknee 17y ago
watmough 17y ago
I think Apple's mistake was to permit adult content in the first place. My wife was looking through apps the other night, and she was appalled to see the number of sex apps showing up in searches. Apple needs to maintain a reasonable tone in the app store, and banning objectionable material is a pretty good start.
- CamperBob 17y ago
  If only there were an abstraction of some sort that could be applied to resolve the dilemma. Perhaps we could look to the works of Russell and earlier philosophers and arrive at a solution. We could call it a type- or, hmm, maybe a category-based system... one which could organize apps with different attributes that appeal to different cross-sections of the user base. Yes, categories sound like the best shot at making everyone happy. Someone should bring that up with Steve Jobs. Who knows, there could be a patent in it for him.
javery 17y ago
I don't know why they don't just move these off to their own section, like NC-17 rated section and make it so they don't show up in the charts. The room at the back of the movie store has worked for decades and seems like a perfect strategy here.
- c1sc0 17y ago
  They don't do that because they can barely keep up with the AppStore popularity. Everything is knee-jerk in the AppStore right now. If you check out the forums you'll notice that not all devs are unhappy about this: there was a massive problem with auto-generated apps polluting the AppStore & Apple responded to this in this way.
ecq 17y ago
one word: browser
charlesju 17y ago
Regardless of whether or not this is a decision I agree with, I understand the business decision from Apple. The incremental value of having these questionable apps does not make up for the brand value damage received by having these apps so prevalent on the app store.

Of course Apple is free to do whatever with it's platform, but it's a little suicidal to change the rules out from under the people who make your platform worthwhile by creating its content. A couple more shifts like that might cause a big migration away from the app store by companies who don't think it's such a great investment when the rug might be pulled out arbitrarily and without warning.

swannodette 17y ago
You mean a big migration away from the app store of companies that make boob jiggling apps.
- pmichaud 17y ago
  Not at all. What I mean is that if I invest in a platform, I expect the rules to stay roughly the same so I can hope to make a fairly predictable return on my investment. If Apple creates a track record for itself of saying things like: Even though there are X,XXX companies developing porn apps (which we approved), we're going to stop allowing those arbitrarily, right now. Or what about: gee, we'd really like to get in on retail banking, so money related apps, those are out. Or how about, we want to partner with acme social media company, so any apps that interact with facebook, those are out. My point is that they can do this once to the porn guys and just piss the porn guys off. If they do it again, to another group, that will and should scare the shit out of the entire developer population, because who's next?

technomancy 17y ago

> And worst of all it is not a secure source of income. It can drop to close to zero if they decide to change the rules That's what single-vendor reliance _means_, genius. Should have thought about this up front before deciding to base your livelihood on someone else's caprice.

DanielBMarkham 17y ago

This sound sensationalist, and I apologize for the tone, but it's almost like we've entered a new era of white-collar serfdom. The big conglomerates create the walled gardens, tell us where to till, decide what's acceptable conduct or not, treat certain serfs with favoritism, and get the best cut off the top. Sure you're free to go anywhere, but if the future really is app stores, what does that freedom amount to?

ZeroGravitas 17y ago
Tim Bray called it being a Sharecropper back in 2003 http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2003/07/12/WebsThePlace http://www.tbray.org/ongoing/When/200x/2003/07/12/WebsThePla...
jsz0 17y ago
There are some good reasons users flock to App Stores. Security, compatibility, ease-of-use, eas-of-installation, etc. Free markets should focus on solving these problems while maintaining their free market if they want to compete.
- c1sc0 17y ago
  There are some good reasons developers flock to App Stores. App Stores take care of all kinds of annoying stuff developers don't really care about like distribution, payment, a little marketing. What is wrong is greedy developers of trivial apps mistaking a lucky strike for a stable source of income.

credo 17y ago

imo it makes sense for Apple to ban what they describe as "degarding and objectionable" content. If they don't want to provide a platform for the objectification of women, good for them. imo, the one thing Apple should do is provide more clarity and transparency about the rules for the app store - i.e. what is allowed, what is not allowed, why an app was rejected etc. That will help developers decide whether or not to build any specific app for the app store.

huhtenberg 17y ago

A more interesting question if it made iPhone _users_ angry, and I really doubt it did. Having these apps in the App Store is like having porn and adult toys section in a department store. Technically, there is nothing wrong with, but practically it does leave a bad impression and ultimately reflects poorly on a brand.

watmough 17y ago
As I commented elsewhere in the thread, people will avoid situations they are uncomfortable with. If app store searches fill up with sex apps, then less people will be interested in searching and buying.
jrockway 17y ago
Maybe in farm towns in the US. In the rest of the world, people actually appear to like sex.
- bmj 17y ago
  Enjoying sex and looking at porn are very different things.
  - jrockway 17y ago
    Really? I thought God hated both...
- huhtenberg 17y ago
  OK. Then name a US department store chain that carries sex toys. Bonus points for an upscale department store, which is what Apple wants App Store to be. For all practical intents and purposes the US (and not say liberally minded Sweden) is the App Store market. And point being is that in the US there is an expectation of porn and adult stuff not to be mixed with the "general purpose" goods at the retail outlets.
  - jonknee 17y ago

watmough 17y ago

I think Apple's mistake was to permit adult content in the first place. My wife was looking through apps the other night, and she was appalled to see the number of sex apps showing up in searches. Apple needs to maintain a reasonable tone in the app store, and banning objectionable material is a pretty good start.

CamperBob 17y ago
If only there were an abstraction of some sort that could be applied to resolve the dilemma. Perhaps we could look to the works of Russell and earlier philosophers and arrive at a solution. We could call it a type- or, hmm, maybe a category-based system... one which could organize apps with different attributes that appeal to different cross-sections of the user base. Yes, categories sound like the best shot at making everyone happy. Someone should bring that up with Steve Jobs. Who knows, there could be a patent in it for him.

javery 17y ago

I don't know why they don't just move these off to their own section, like NC-17 rated section and make it so they don't show up in the charts. The room at the back of the movie store has worked for decades and seems like a perfect strategy here.

c1sc0 17y ago
They don't do that because they can barely keep up with the AppStore popularity. Everything is knee-jerk in the AppStore right now. If you check out the forums you'll notice that not all devs are unhappy about this: there was a massive problem with auto-generated apps polluting the AppStore & Apple responded to this in this way.

ecq 17y ago

one word: browser

charlesju 17y ago

Regardless of whether or not this is a decision I agree with, I understand the business decision from Apple. The incremental value of having these questionable apps does not make up for the brand value damage received by having these apps so prevalent on the app store.