9 ms·

Swim. Bike. Cheat?

144 points by wallflower 11y ago

darklajid 11y ago
This reads like a witch hunt. If the article's facts are correct, someone cheated, got caught and punished/banned. The article doesn't have much more (hand waiving, ends in "no clue what she did"). This sentence reads like harassment to me: "In several email exchanges, on the telephone, and in a brief conversation at the front door of her house in Squamish, Miller declined to be interviewed for this article"
- johnm1019 11y ago
  That's a reporter doing their job. If they called one time and left a voicemail, there would be outcry because, "they never gave her a chance to tell her side of the story."
  - mbritton72 11y ago
    One can imagine the reporter being vilified and accused of "bullying."
- trymas 11y ago
  This article could've been at least twice as short, than it is now. Though there are too many facts against Miller: - Photographers have not seen her twice on the running laps - Competitors have not seen her - The photo evidence of 1.4/13.8 mile running checkpoint shows that she was there in ~86 minutes from bike finish. Either she crawled those 1.4 miles or she had a rocket pack on her back as the best male result for 13.8 mile run was 90 minutes. - If she really would've seen after the bike stage, that she is missing her timing chip, she or her assistant (if she had one) would've informed competition staff. Because competitors know 'no chip - no time, means disqualification'. - Not giving GPS data of her Garmin sports watch (athletes of this level save their sports data and log in their diaries religiously, and they simply 'not loose it' or their 'dogs eat it'). If you are clean, you will happily show your GPS logs, easiest proof and everybody is happy.
  - yes_or_gnome 11y ago
    > - The photo evidence of 1.4/13.8 mile running checkpoint shows that she was there in ~86 minutes from bike finish. Either she crawled those 1.4 miles or she had a rocket pack on her back as the best male result for 13.8 mile run was 90 minutes. One of the things that I didn't like about the article is that it doesn't provide Davis' reported times. Quote, emphasis added: > Davis, who comes from Carlsbad, Calif., and is one of the top triathletes in her age group in the world, had been first out of the water and first off her bike — she was sure of it. It would be fairly easy, and more transparent, if the author would have simply provided the data from other competitors to compare against the times that Miller had registered from before the marathon portion. About Miller's cycling end-time. As it seems, there is no photographic evidence of Miller at that checkpoint, to me, that suggests that either A) the time is correct and she took a 60-75min break from the competition, or B) had an accomplice take the chip to the check-in before her actual arrival time. The former is the more likely explanation assuming that is when(if) she tampered with the device. She would have needed time to get out of eyesight, lose the device, and then, have a rest. The latter would be more insidious, but shouldn't be too hard to rule out. There are records for every competitor at the location, and the volunteers there should be recorded too; I would imagine coaches and bystanders are roped off from the area. Did any of people have a close association with Miller? Although, that may be beside the point because she has had several questionable past events. You could look at these other events to see if there is a correlation of volunteers or if Miller's time pairs too closely to another competitor would be extraordinary. EDIT: It hadn't occurred to me until after writing this up that there's another possibility, in support of Miller's claim. That is, the chip could have been found by another competitor and delivered to that checkpoint. I believe the article states that Miller explains that it was lost between changing from the swim portion to the biking section.
    - davros 11y ago
      If you'd like all those details and more its all online eg http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/IM_Canada_F40-44%3A_new_thread_P5674186 http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triat... which includes links to detailed analyses of the photo times and splits (which I find convincing).
- chasing 11y ago
  A "witch hunt" is going after someone unfairly. Maybe they're personally unpopular. Maybe they hold an unpopular view. It implies injustice. I don't see that here. This woman has apparently been fairly well proven a cheater. And if you regularly cheat in order to win a relatively major sporting event, you run the risk of the New York Times writing an article about it -- and maybe sending you a few e-mails or knocking on your door to get your side of the story. The people who deserve sympathy are those racers who played by the rules but got fucked out of a spot in higher-level races because of this woman. And the people who actually won those races but didn't get to enjoy their moment of celebration at the top of podium. Small things, maybe, but nevertheless it's shitty that those experiences were stolen from people who worked very hard for them.
randycupertino 11y ago
I used to do triathlons pretty hard-core with a top tri club in NYC. The amount of athletes I trained with who took illegal performance enhancing drugs was surprisingly high. They would see sketchy anti-aging out-of-pocket concierge docs for 5-10k a month who would prescribe them whatever they wanted/needed. It's a very ego-driven sport. You get a lot of rich mid-life crisis types, generally uber Type-A Captains of Industry who achieve professional success and then are like "now what, what is my next feather in my cap?" ... the answer is Ironman/Kona. These dudes would drop 15k on a tri bike, swag it out 3 different sets of race wheels, rollers, power meter, carbon everything, $600 a month for the coach, $250 a month for the gym, $300 for pool fees and swim stroke clinics, $350 for yoga classes, $500 a month for massages, 20k per season for race entry fees and travel to races, training camps, etc etc etc. I always advise to single women who want to meet rich dudes to join a tri club. My tri club alone had like 5 marriages in the time I trained there. Anyway, fun sport, but I couldn't take the egos. I've found ultrarunning to have a much more down to earth and friendly crowd.
- stephenr 11y ago
  > The amount of athletes I trained with who took illegal performance enhancing drugs was surprisingly high. > I always advise to single women who want to meet rich dudes to join a tri club. I have no words. Well, no I have four. Jesus. Titty. Fucking. Christ.
- chefkoch 11y ago
  I always thought of triathlon of a sport where doping was not that useful?
  - lamby 11y ago
    Not as useful as in professional cycling but its still an endurance sport and, of course, the recovery benefits etc. etc.
    - TheCondor 11y ago
      Why isn't it as useful? The team nature of cycling? Every time I've heard that in the past, the sport has been completely filthy.
ngoeke 11y ago
The tactics might've gotten a bit sneakier, but the idea is over 100 years old. Too bad she couldn't just've gotten a lift, like this guy :D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Lorz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Lorz
- usrusr 11y ago
  The whole article reads like a remake of the earliest history of racing, just slightly modernised with GPS, transponders and Instagram. Road cycling history is full of stories of who took a train where in what race and how did he get caught. Entertaining stuff. A tangent of the article also mentions the use of an invented marathon to fill a gap in the achievement list of an ambitious runner. In the early boom years of road cycling, claiming wins in bogus races was so commonplace that avoiding that kind of CV hacking was the main driver in the formation of official regulations and organizations like UCI, afaik.
- nkurz 11y ago
  Almost more extraordinary is the story of the winner after Lorz was disqualified for his 'joke'. The trainers for the eventual winner, Thomas Hicks, injected him with drugs _during_ the race. Twice! While Lorz had used a car as a quick fix, Hicks had used, well, a quick fix. His trainer afterwards admitted they had decided "to inject him with a milligram of sulphate of strychnine and to make him drink a large glass brimming with brandy". Hicks then "set off again as best he could". But one hit was not enough. "He needed another injection four miles from the end to give him a semblance of speed and to get him to the finish." Hicks kept his medal, a decision possibly influenced by the embarrassment Lorz had already caused. The leniency also reflected the fact that doping, and strychnine abuse in particular, was commonplace at the time. Now the drug seems so archaic that Hicks's story has a certain twisted humour. But the ramifications of its use were just as obnoxious as those of HGH and steroids are today. http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2008/may/30/drugsinsport.olympicgames http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2008/may/30/drugsinsport.ol...
  - ngoeke 11y ago
    Haha, no way, I wonder how many of all participants were on drugs!
DarkTree 11y ago
I mean multiple chip misplacements? What are the chances? Especially after losing one, you would probably be more careful. However, it's this occurrence that really looks shady in conjunction with the others: >"Cyclists do not wear timing chips in the Test of Metal; they affix numbers to the front of their bikes. Miller’s somehow became detached from her bike in the 2015 race, the only such incident among more than 800 competitors"
- alistairSH 11y ago
  Yeah, Test of Metal is a mountain bike race, where the numbers are typically zip-tied to the handlebars. I can't think of a situation where the number would fall off with no trace. A bad enough crash could tear the number, but would be unlikely to tear it off completely. And a crash that bad would cost time, and possibly cause injury or damage to the bike.
  - emcq 11y ago
    I've done at least one race where they gave you those twisty pipe cleaners, but I would be extremely surprised if this was used at a big event. Those things can be a bit easier to yank off. With most wrecks it's really hard to have the center of the handlebars impact something in a scraping motion, but I've had a hard wreck in a race sending my bike tumbling through a stream into the side of a hill and the worst damage to the number was getting covered in mud. The number tag was essentially shoveling mud yet stayed perfectly intact. If you look at her finishing picture there isn't even zip-ties left. No number = DNF.
sambe 11y ago
Reminds me of Kip Litton: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/08/06/marathon-man http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/08/06/marathon-man
douche 11y ago
Sounds like Rosie Ruiz winning the Boston Marathon by taking the T.
anonymfus 11y ago
Obligatory London 2012 opening ceremony reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwzjlmBLfrQ&t=176 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwzjlmBLfrQ&t=176
clickbyclick 11y ago
Is the world's oldest profession prostitution or cheating? Cheating in sport started as soon as people cared about the outcome, only now with ubiquitous data sources has it become increasing hard to succeed at. Cheaters hope they fly just between the fine line of amazement in their outcome and interest that would invoke investigation and lead to their downfall. The bank robber whose holdup note is written on the back of their deposit slip never thinks they'll be caught, so is the athlete who fails to consider the power of the data and dedication of slighted peers to unearth it. I'm not in disbelief that she was caught, only that so many others weren't... Yet.
- kelukelugames 11y ago
  Prostitutes cheat too. So there is that. https://www.google.com/search?q=merkin https://www.google.com/search?q=merkin
- mbritton72 11y ago
  I find part of the entertainment value of sport to be the cat-and-mouse between two factions: journalists and competitors, and cheaters. No matter how much we deny it, this spectacle is the "meta-race" that gives these events real human drama.
mikereedell 11y ago
Losing her chip is major red-flag. I've raced 3 full IM's, 13 half-IM's, and a bunch of sprints/olympics/etc. and have never lost a chip and know very few people who have. Losing a chip while not losing the strap is also suspicious since it takes effort to thread the chip onto the strap and effort to get the chip off. I'm not saying it can't happen, but a history of losing timing chips is very odd. The image at the top of the piece shows her chip at her ankle, below her wetsuit. Unless you plan on losing your chip, you ALWAYS wear the chip higher up so your wetsuit covers it, making it harder to come off in the swim when other swimmers grab your ankles.
peter303 11y ago
Recently some bikers were caught with small motor assists in the tubes of their bikes. While small 100 watt motors dont sound impressive, they are about a third of the sustained power of human bicyclist and can make a difference.
nkurz 11y ago
She was also disqualified from two previous races: Ironman Canada 2013, which officials said she had not completed (and where she said she also lost her chip), and the 2014 Vancouver Triathlon... Cyclists do not wear timing chips in the Test of Metal; they affix numbers to the front of their bikes. Miller’s somehow became detached from her bike in the 2015 race, the only such incident among more than 800 competitors. What are the chances that the fastest athlete loses their chip in not just one race but three? You'd think after the first instance the athlete would be more rather than less vigilant, although perhaps not if they are no consequences. Although it might seem unfair to the occasional real winner who loses their chip, equating "No chip" with "Did not finish" seems like a safer practice. In the case that a real winner is disqualified, they still know that they were capable of winning the race, and (unless they have fantastically bad luck with velcro and twist ties) will likely will go on to win other races. But reinstating a potential cheater is demoralizing to everyone else, and unless there is a correlation between going fast and losing chips, many of the reinstatements are going reward fraudulent behavior.
timwaagh 11y ago
triatlon sounds very appealing until you realize the insane amount of effort it takes. its no wonder people cheat. if i had to train 24/7 all year long id want to at least see some glory too. 'just cycling' is good enough for me.
cafard 11y ago
See http://www.runnersworld.com/races/marine-corps-marathon-issues-lifetime-ban-to-runner http://www.runnersworld.com/races/marine-corps-marathon-issu... for an interesting case. (Full, ludicrous, disclosure: I once took shortcuts on the Marine Corps Marathon course; but I was following the pack. The finishers' certificates for the 1980 race went out with a finish time and an estimated adjusted time.)

144 points by wallflower 11y ago

This reads like a witch hunt. If the article's facts are correct, someone cheated, got caught and punished/banned. The article doesn't have much more (hand waiving, ends in "no clue what she did"). This sentence reads like harassment to me: "In several email exchanges, on the telephone, and in a brief conversation at the front door of her house in Squamish, Miller declined to be interviewed for this article"

johnm1019 11y ago
That's a reporter doing their job. If they called one time and left a voicemail, there would be outcry because, "they never gave her a chance to tell her side of the story."
- mbritton72 11y ago
  One can imagine the reporter being vilified and accused of "bullying."
trymas 11y ago
This article could've been at least twice as short, than it is now. Though there are too many facts against Miller: - Photographers have not seen her twice on the running laps - Competitors have not seen her - The photo evidence of 1.4/13.8 mile running checkpoint shows that she was there in ~86 minutes from bike finish. Either she crawled those 1.4 miles or she had a rocket pack on her back as the best male result for 13.8 mile run was 90 minutes. - If she really would've seen after the bike stage, that she is missing her timing chip, she or her assistant (if she had one) would've informed competition staff. Because competitors know 'no chip - no time, means disqualification'. - Not giving GPS data of her Garmin sports watch (athletes of this level save their sports data and log in their diaries religiously, and they simply 'not loose it' or their 'dogs eat it'). If you are clean, you will happily show your GPS logs, easiest proof and everybody is happy.
- yes_or_gnome 11y ago
  > - The photo evidence of 1.4/13.8 mile running checkpoint shows that she was there in ~86 minutes from bike finish. Either she crawled those 1.4 miles or she had a rocket pack on her back as the best male result for 13.8 mile run was 90 minutes. One of the things that I didn't like about the article is that it doesn't provide Davis' reported times. Quote, emphasis added: > Davis, who comes from Carlsbad, Calif., and is one of the top triathletes in her age group in the world, had been first out of the water and first off her bike — she was sure of it. It would be fairly easy, and more transparent, if the author would have simply provided the data from other competitors to compare against the times that Miller had registered from before the marathon portion. About Miller's cycling end-time. As it seems, there is no photographic evidence of Miller at that checkpoint, to me, that suggests that either A) the time is correct and she took a 60-75min break from the competition, or B) had an accomplice take the chip to the check-in before her actual arrival time. The former is the more likely explanation assuming that is when(if) she tampered with the device. She would have needed time to get out of eyesight, lose the device, and then, have a rest. The latter would be more insidious, but shouldn't be too hard to rule out. There are records for every competitor at the location, and the volunteers there should be recorded too; I would imagine coaches and bystanders are roped off from the area. Did any of people have a close association with Miller? Although, that may be beside the point because she has had several questionable past events. You could look at these other events to see if there is a correlation of volunteers or if Miller's time pairs too closely to another competitor would be extraordinary. EDIT: It hadn't occurred to me until after writing this up that there's another possibility, in support of Miller's claim. That is, the chip could have been found by another competitor and delivered to that checkpoint. I believe the article states that Miller explains that it was lost between changing from the swim portion to the biking section.
  - davros 11y ago
    If you'd like all those details and more its all online eg http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triathlon_Forum_F1/IM_Canada_F40-44%3A_new_thread_P5674186 http://forum.slowtwitch.com/forum/Slowtwitch_Forums_C1/Triat... which includes links to detailed analyses of the photo times and splits (which I find convincing).
chasing 11y ago
A "witch hunt" is going after someone unfairly. Maybe they're personally unpopular. Maybe they hold an unpopular view. It implies injustice. I don't see that here. This woman has apparently been fairly well proven a cheater. And if you regularly cheat in order to win a relatively major sporting event, you run the risk of the New York Times writing an article about it -- and maybe sending you a few e-mails or knocking on your door to get your side of the story. The people who deserve sympathy are those racers who played by the rules but got fucked out of a spot in higher-level races because of this woman. And the people who actually won those races but didn't get to enjoy their moment of celebration at the top of podium. Small things, maybe, but nevertheless it's shitty that those experiences were stolen from people who worked very hard for them.

randycupertino 11y ago

I used to do triathlons pretty hard-core with a top tri club in NYC. The amount of athletes I trained with who took illegal performance enhancing drugs was surprisingly high. They would see sketchy anti-aging out-of-pocket concierge docs for 5-10k a month who would prescribe them whatever they wanted/needed. It's a very ego-driven sport. You get a lot of rich mid-life crisis types, generally uber Type-A Captains of Industry who achieve professional success and then are like "now what, what is my next feather in my cap?" ... the answer is Ironman/Kona. These dudes would drop 15k on a tri bike, swag it out 3 different sets of race wheels, rollers, power meter, carbon everything, $600 a month for the coach, $250 a month for the gym, $300 for pool fees and swim stroke clinics, $350 for yoga classes, $500 a month for massages, 20k per season for race entry fees and travel to races, training camps, etc etc etc. I always advise to single women who want to meet rich dudes to join a tri club. My tri club alone had like 5 marriages in the time I trained there. Anyway, fun sport, but I couldn't take the egos. I've found ultrarunning to have a much more down to earth and friendly crowd.

stephenr 11y ago
> The amount of athletes I trained with who took illegal performance enhancing drugs was surprisingly high. > I always advise to single women who want to meet rich dudes to join a tri club. I have no words. Well, no I have four. Jesus. Titty. Fucking. Christ.
chefkoch 11y ago
I always thought of triathlon of a sport where doping was not that useful?
- lamby 11y ago
  Not as useful as in professional cycling but its still an endurance sport and, of course, the recovery benefits etc. etc.
  - TheCondor 11y ago
    Why isn't it as useful? The team nature of cycling? Every time I've heard that in the past, the sport has been completely filthy.

ngoeke 11y ago

The tactics might've gotten a bit sneakier, but the idea is over 100 years old. Too bad she couldn't just've gotten a lift, like this guy :D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Lorz https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Lorz

usrusr 11y ago
The whole article reads like a remake of the earliest history of racing, just slightly modernised with GPS, transponders and Instagram. Road cycling history is full of stories of who took a train where in what race and how did he get caught. Entertaining stuff. A tangent of the article also mentions the use of an invented marathon to fill a gap in the achievement list of an ambitious runner. In the early boom years of road cycling, claiming wins in bogus races was so commonplace that avoiding that kind of CV hacking was the main driver in the formation of official regulations and organizations like UCI, afaik.
nkurz 11y ago
Almost more extraordinary is the story of the winner after Lorz was disqualified for his 'joke'. The trainers for the eventual winner, Thomas Hicks, injected him with drugs _during_ the race. Twice! While Lorz had used a car as a quick fix, Hicks had used, well, a quick fix. His trainer afterwards admitted they had decided "to inject him with a milligram of sulphate of strychnine and to make him drink a large glass brimming with brandy". Hicks then "set off again as best he could". But one hit was not enough. "He needed another injection four miles from the end to give him a semblance of speed and to get him to the finish." Hicks kept his medal, a decision possibly influenced by the embarrassment Lorz had already caused. The leniency also reflected the fact that doping, and strychnine abuse in particular, was commonplace at the time. Now the drug seems so archaic that Hicks's story has a certain twisted humour. But the ramifications of its use were just as obnoxious as those of HGH and steroids are today. http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2008/may/30/drugsinsport.olympicgames http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2008/may/30/drugsinsport.ol...
- ngoeke 11y ago
  Haha, no way, I wonder how many of all participants were on drugs!

DarkTree 11y ago

I mean multiple chip misplacements? What are the chances? Especially after losing one, you would probably be more careful. However, it's this occurrence that really looks shady in conjunction with the others: >"Cyclists do not wear timing chips in the Test of Metal; they affix numbers to the front of their bikes. Miller’s somehow became detached from her bike in the 2015 race, the only such incident among more than 800 competitors"

alistairSH 11y ago
Yeah, Test of Metal is a mountain bike race, where the numbers are typically zip-tied to the handlebars. I can't think of a situation where the number would fall off with no trace. A bad enough crash could tear the number, but would be unlikely to tear it off completely. And a crash that bad would cost time, and possibly cause injury or damage to the bike.
- emcq 11y ago
  I've done at least one race where they gave you those twisty pipe cleaners, but I would be extremely surprised if this was used at a big event. Those things can be a bit easier to yank off. With most wrecks it's really hard to have the center of the handlebars impact something in a scraping motion, but I've had a hard wreck in a race sending my bike tumbling through a stream into the side of a hill and the worst damage to the number was getting covered in mud. The number tag was essentially shoveling mud yet stayed perfectly intact. If you look at her finishing picture there isn't even zip-ties left. No number = DNF.

sambe 11y ago

Reminds me of Kip Litton: http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/08/06/marathon-man http://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2012/08/06/marathon-man

douche 11y ago

Sounds like Rosie Ruiz winning the Boston Marathon by taking the T.

anonymfus 11y ago

Obligatory London 2012 opening ceremony reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwzjlmBLfrQ&t=176 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwzjlmBLfrQ&t=176

clickbyclick 11y ago

Is the world's oldest profession prostitution or cheating? Cheating in sport started as soon as people cared about the outcome, only now with ubiquitous data sources has it become increasing hard to succeed at. Cheaters hope they fly just between the fine line of amazement in their outcome and interest that would invoke investigation and lead to their downfall. The bank robber whose holdup note is written on the back of their deposit slip never thinks they'll be caught, so is the athlete who fails to consider the power of the data and dedication of slighted peers to unearth it. I'm not in disbelief that she was caught, only that so many others weren't... Yet.

kelukelugames 11y ago
Prostitutes cheat too. So there is that. https://www.google.com/search?q=merkin https://www.google.com/search?q=merkin
mbritton72 11y ago
I find part of the entertainment value of sport to be the cat-and-mouse between two factions: journalists and competitors, and cheaters. No matter how much we deny it, this spectacle is the "meta-race" that gives these events real human drama.

mikereedell 11y ago

Losing her chip is major red-flag. I've raced 3 full IM's, 13 half-IM's, and a bunch of sprints/olympics/etc. and have never lost a chip and know very few people who have. Losing a chip while not losing the strap is also suspicious since it takes effort to thread the chip onto the strap and effort to get the chip off. I'm not saying it can't happen, but a history of losing timing chips is very odd. The image at the top of the piece shows her chip at her ankle, below her wetsuit. Unless you plan on losing your chip, you ALWAYS wear the chip higher up so your wetsuit covers it, making it harder to come off in the swim when other swimmers grab your ankles.

peter303 11y ago

Recently some bikers were caught with small motor assists in the tubes of their bikes. While small 100 watt motors dont sound impressive, they are about a third of the sustained power of human bicyclist and can make a difference.

nkurz 11y ago

She was also disqualified from two previous races: Ironman Canada 2013, which officials said she had not completed (and where she said she also lost her chip), and the 2014 Vancouver Triathlon... Cyclists do not wear timing chips in the Test of Metal; they affix numbers to the front of their bikes. Miller’s somehow became detached from her bike in the 2015 race, the only such incident among more than 800 competitors. What are the chances that the fastest athlete loses their chip in not just one race but three? You'd think after the first instance the athlete would be more rather than less vigilant, although perhaps not if they are no consequences. Although it might seem unfair to the occasional real winner who loses their chip, equating "No chip" with "Did not finish" seems like a safer practice. In the case that a real winner is disqualified, they still know that they were capable of winning the race, and (unless they have fantastically bad luck with velcro and twist ties) will likely will go on to win other races. But reinstating a potential cheater is demoralizing to everyone else, and unless there is a correlation between going fast and losing chips, many of the reinstatements are going reward fraudulent behavior.

timwaagh 11y ago

triatlon sounds very appealing until you realize the insane amount of effort it takes. its no wonder people cheat. if i had to train 24/7 all year long id want to at least see some glory too. 'just cycling' is good enough for me.

cafard 11y ago

See http://www.runnersworld.com/races/marine-corps-marathon-issues-lifetime-ban-to-runner http://www.runnersworld.com/races/marine-corps-marathon-issu... for an interesting case. (Full, ludicrous, disclosure: I once took shortcuts on the Marine Corps Marathon course; but I was following the pack. The finishers' certificates for the 1980 race went out with a finish time and an estimated adjusted time.)