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This bit caught my eye: > [...] it [Silicon Valley] has its peculiar jokes and rhythms and closely-held shadow beliefs which owe a bit more to repetition than

by crux_ 17y ago

This bit caught my eye: > [...] it [Silicon Valley] has its peculiar jokes and rhythms and closely-held shadow beliefs which owe a bit more to repetition than they owe to empirical reality The problem is that those beliefs include a broad perception of women as less than equal. Lack of diversity is a self-perpetuating prophecy in that way. --- Broader reply: I also think that Patrick is severely underestimating the benefits of a diverse environment. There are reasons Silicon Valley is next to SF and not Dallas; many of them have to do with the vibrant mix of cultures there. Personal anecdote: I've moved across the country in search, specifically, of greater diversity. I've turned down jobs because the workplace was a monoculture. And the single biggest negative for me of the space I'm currently co-working in is that it is entirely composed of white guys under 30. I may or may not be the best developer ever -- but the best programmers and businesspeople I've ever met share some of the same values. In other words a homogeneous environment will not only drive away 'diverse' people, but also may be doing the same for the best non-diverse people as well.

jdminhbg 17y ago
"There are reasons Silicon Valley is next to SF and not Dallas; many of them have to do with the vibrant mix of cultures there." Erm. As of the census[1] of 2000, the racial makeup of Dallas was 50.8% White, 25.9% Black or African American, 0.5% Native American, 2.7% Asian, 0.1% Pacific Islander, 17.2% from other races, and 2.7% from two or more races. 35.6% of the population was Hispanic or Latino of any race. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Dallas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Dallas) In 2000 the racial makeup of the 9 County Bay Area was 58.10% white, 19.01% Asian, 0.54% Pacific Islander, 7.53% black, 0.64% Native American, 9.24% from other races, and 4.93% from two or more races. 19.39% of the population was Hispanic or Latino of any race. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Bay_Area#Demographics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Bay_Area#Demograp...)
- crux_ 17y ago
  Fair enough. But when was the last time anyone called Dallas "vibrant"? Maybe it's just as much about perception of diversity. Edit to add: how about apples-to-apples comparison too, eh? You could have chosen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco#Demographics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco#Demographics Or: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas%E2%80%93Fort_Worth_Metroplex#Demographics_2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas%E2%80%93Fort_Worth_Metro... Instead you chose to compare the 7 million population Bay Area to the 1.1 million population city of Dallas. Second edit: I'd like to retract the 'fair enough' since it wasn't actually a fair comparison. ;)
  - jdminhbg 17y ago
    That's not unlikely. Perception may be as good as reality, if you're figuring out where people will relocate too.
- jdietrich 17y ago
  I think you're both missing Patrick's point here to some extent. A broad palette of skin colours does not equal diversity. How many evangelical Christians do you meet in the valley? How many stay at home moms? I think urban diversity is highly misleading - while you might look around and see the signs of diversity, how often do you have a conversation with someone who has totally different goals and aspirations to yourself? I can only speak from a British perspective, but I think London is a good example of this - although it is one of the most racially and culturally diverse cities on earth, it is in practice quite strongly ghettoised by age and outlook. Most people will scarcely exchange more than a few words with anyone outside their professional and social circles. It seems to me that people living in rural communities tend to have more diverse contact as they are much more likely to actually spend time with people who live lives very different to their own. Out of genuine curiosity, I ask all the folks in the Bay Area - when was the last time you had a conversation with someone who doesn't own a computer (and isn't your mom)? When was the last time you had a drink with someone who is barely literate? Myspace has 51 million users in the US, how many do you know?
  - crux_ 17y ago
    > While you might look around and see the signs of diversity, how often do you have a conversation with someone who has totally different goals and aspirations to yourself? If you are interested in doing so, you have the opportunity. You wouldn't if you were living in Kansas. You seriously believe that London's ethnic and cultural diversity isn't a genuine attraction for many who end up there, nor a genuine asset for the city?
    - jdminhbg 17y ago
      I seriously believe that when people say they want "diversity," what they mean is: 1) People where I currently am aren't like me, so if I go somewhere more 'diverse,' there will be more people like me 2) And the restaurants will be better EDIT: That's meant as a generalization, BTW, not a pop-psych analysis of anyone in the thread.
      - crux_ 17y ago
- crux_ 17y ago
  Replying again since the parent is getting voted up, and I think it's misleading: If you compare the Bay Area to the Dallas/Ft Worth area, you will get 58% white vs. 70% white. If you compare the specific city of SF to the city of Dallas, you'll get 45% white vs 50.0% white. In both cases, SF / Bay Area has a greater proportion of minorities than Dallas... ... not to say that jdminhbg doesn't have a point entirely (Dallas itself is more diverse than the stereotype) -- but it was hugely exaggerated by comparing a city to a region.

by crux_ 17y ago

jdminhbg 17y ago

"There are reasons Silicon Valley is next to SF and not Dallas; many of them have to do with the vibrant mix of cultures there." Erm. As of the census[1] of 2000, the racial makeup of Dallas was 50.8% White, 25.9% Black or African American, 0.5% Native American, 2.7% Asian, 0.1% Pacific Islander, 17.2% from other races, and 2.7% from two or more races. 35.6% of the population was Hispanic or Latino of any race. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Dallas http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Dallas) In 2000 the racial makeup of the 9 County Bay Area was 58.10% white, 19.01% Asian, 0.54% Pacific Islander, 7.53% black, 0.64% Native American, 9.24% from other races, and 4.93% from two or more races. 19.39% of the population was Hispanic or Latino of any race. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Bay_Area#Demographics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Bay_Area#Demograp...)

crux_ 17y ago
Fair enough. But when was the last time anyone called Dallas "vibrant"? Maybe it's just as much about perception of diversity. Edit to add: how about apples-to-apples comparison too, eh? You could have chosen: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco#Demographics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco#Demographics Or: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas%E2%80%93Fort_Worth_Metroplex#Demographics_2 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dallas%E2%80%93Fort_Worth_Metro... Instead you chose to compare the 7 million population Bay Area to the 1.1 million population city of Dallas. Second edit: I'd like to retract the 'fair enough' since it wasn't actually a fair comparison. ;)
- jdminhbg 17y ago
  That's not unlikely. Perception may be as good as reality, if you're figuring out where people will relocate too.
jdietrich 17y ago
I think you're both missing Patrick's point here to some extent. A broad palette of skin colours does not equal diversity. How many evangelical Christians do you meet in the valley? How many stay at home moms? I think urban diversity is highly misleading - while you might look around and see the signs of diversity, how often do you have a conversation with someone who has totally different goals and aspirations to yourself? I can only speak from a British perspective, but I think London is a good example of this - although it is one of the most racially and culturally diverse cities on earth, it is in practice quite strongly ghettoised by age and outlook. Most people will scarcely exchange more than a few words with anyone outside their professional and social circles. It seems to me that people living in rural communities tend to have more diverse contact as they are much more likely to actually spend time with people who live lives very different to their own. Out of genuine curiosity, I ask all the folks in the Bay Area - when was the last time you had a conversation with someone who doesn't own a computer (and isn't your mom)? When was the last time you had a drink with someone who is barely literate? Myspace has 51 million users in the US, how many do you know?
- crux_ 17y ago
  > While you might look around and see the signs of diversity, how often do you have a conversation with someone who has totally different goals and aspirations to yourself? If you are interested in doing so, you have the opportunity. You wouldn't if you were living in Kansas. You seriously believe that London's ethnic and cultural diversity isn't a genuine attraction for many who end up there, nor a genuine asset for the city?
  - jdminhbg 17y ago
    I seriously believe that when people say they want "diversity," what they mean is: 1) People where I currently am aren't like me, so if I go somewhere more 'diverse,' there will be more people like me 2) And the restaurants will be better EDIT: That's meant as a generalization, BTW, not a pop-psych analysis of anyone in the thread.
    - crux_ 17y ago
crux_ 17y ago
Replying again since the parent is getting voted up, and I think it's misleading: If you compare the Bay Area to the Dallas/Ft Worth area, you will get 58% white vs. 70% white. If you compare the specific city of SF to the city of Dallas, you'll get 45% white vs 50.0% white. In both cases, SF / Bay Area has a greater proportion of minorities than Dallas... ... not to say that jdminhbg doesn't have a point entirely (Dallas itself is more diverse than the stereotype) -- but it was hugely exaggerated by comparing a city to a region.