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> And while I think that crypto->math->speech is clear While I agree with this, I don't think the most important part of crypto == math is the connection to sp

by curun1r 11y ago

> And while I think that crypto->math->speech is clear While I agree with this, I don't think the most important part of crypto == math is the connection to speech. The most important part is that math doesn't compromise. You can't make math kinda work...it either does or it doesn't. You can't make math work for some people and not others. Math is absolute, so this debate is absolute. The result is either secure applications or fundamentally insecure applications. This is where the government's "we've got to find a compromise" rhetoric rings hollow, naive or disingenuous, depending on how much credit you're willing to give them when it comes to technical acumen. Compromise, when it comes to encryption, means compromised. When encryption is compromised, that encryption is fundamentally broken and dangerous. Crypto == math means there can be no compromise with the government's agenda. And it's not because we don't want to be reasonable, it's because math doesn't care about court orders, the law, the government's authority or good intentions.

wyldfire 11y ago
> This is where the government's "we've got to find a compromise" rhetoric rings hollow, naive or disingenuous, depending on how much credit you're willing to give them when it comes to technical acumen. The government is not one uniform thing. I think there's elements of the government who feel like the compromise is appropriate and don't realize that Key Escrow is the only possible compromise and don't realize why it's already been reviewed and rejected. They might mistakenly think that the objections are somehow needlessly idealized or dogmatic. I don't think they're naive at all. They're just mistaken. On the other side, there's other elements of government who are totally aware and willing to exploit the fear of the electorate and legislators in order to achieve their goals. That group is definitely disingenuous.
- Bluestrike2 11y ago
  To be fair, most of the loud political objections they deal with can be considered "needlessly idealized or dogmatic." That's largely the norm, and it's become even more so as the louder minorities within each party have been able to leverage new tech to increase their respective voices. This applies to almost every issue that they have to deal with, and every advocacy group argues that their issue is special and unique. So it is any surprise that a lot of our legislators (at least those who aren't leading the charge here) are grouping arguments against backdoors into the same category based on their past experiences? They don't have the background or theoretical grounding to realize that, this time, the realities of mathematics really do make this issue unique. It's a mess, with no clear path in sight. In addition to lobbying and supporting new candidates, any united effort to defend against these intrusions is going to have to include a massive education program meant to inform legislators on the dangers of what they're proposing. And it'll have to be tailored to how legislators actually think about policy. The arguments that work amongst the tech world aren't going to work in Congress. Not because they're idiots or anything like that, but because radically different backgrounds and experiences can affect how information is processed.

by curun1r 11y ago

wyldfire 11y ago

> This is where the government's "we've got to find a compromise" rhetoric rings hollow, naive or disingenuous, depending on how much credit you're willing to give them when it comes to technical acumen. The government is not one uniform thing. I think there's elements of the government who feel like the compromise is appropriate and don't realize that Key Escrow is the only possible compromise and don't realize why it's already been reviewed and rejected. They might mistakenly think that the objections are somehow needlessly idealized or dogmatic. I don't think they're naive at all. They're just mistaken. On the other side, there's other elements of government who are totally aware and willing to exploit the fear of the electorate and legislators in order to achieve their goals. That group is definitely disingenuous.

Bluestrike2 11y ago
To be fair, most of the loud political objections they deal with can be considered "needlessly idealized or dogmatic." That's largely the norm, and it's become even more so as the louder minorities within each party have been able to leverage new tech to increase their respective voices. This applies to almost every issue that they have to deal with, and every advocacy group argues that their issue is special and unique. So it is any surprise that a lot of our legislators (at least those who aren't leading the charge here) are grouping arguments against backdoors into the same category based on their past experiences? They don't have the background or theoretical grounding to realize that, this time, the realities of mathematics really do make this issue unique. It's a mess, with no clear path in sight. In addition to lobbying and supporting new candidates, any united effort to defend against these intrusions is going to have to include a massive education program meant to inform legislators on the dangers of what they're proposing. And it'll have to be tailored to how legislators actually think about policy. The arguments that work amongst the tech world aren't going to work in Congress. Not because they're idiots or anything like that, but because radically different backgrounds and experiences can affect how information is processed.