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But my gut instinct has always been that people avoid joining startups because joining startups sucks. The question isn’t what are we doing that’s keeping ladi

But my gut instinct has always been that people avoid joining startups because joining startups sucks. The question isn’t what are we doing that’s keeping ladies out of the Valley, gentlemen. The question should be why in God’s name are we still here. The startup failure rate after 5 years is actually closer to 60 than 90%. Two comparisons come to mind: In a standard company job, career stagnation and unrecognized toil are the standard. If you don't become the protege of someone important-- someone who will look out for you and make sure you're on the best projects-- in the first two years, it's no longer worth it to go to work in a lot of companies. Most people don't become proteges. So, if you're ambitious at all, there's above a 60% chance you'll be looking for work again in 5 years no matter what you do. Second, although the boring corporate job is safer, the enjoyment of startups comes from the fact that you're doing relevant, useful work (so long as the product you're working on has a successful launch and trajectory). To do relevant work isn't an option for most people in their early-mid 20s; even if they're brilliant, most companies expect them to "pay dues" before they can do anything interesting, and there are so many arcane, IO-bound permissions systems before even the smallest technological changes can be made. In the startup, you have a 100% chance of doing relevant work for a product that has a sub-50% chance of ever existing. In the safe corporate job, less than 20% of what you'll do in your first three years is relevant work. It's tough to say which wins. Personally, I chose the startup route under the belief that, no matter what happens, I'll learn a lot more-- that's a lot more important than what job title I get or what my pay is (as long as I can stay afloat). I figure that I can rewrite my own story a million times-- I've never had to resort to "creative career repair", but if I need to invent more impressive titles or inflate compensation, I can. On the other hand, knowledge and skill are completely impossible to fake. So I focus on a path where I learn a lot, not one where I get my tickets punched.

tptacek 17y ago
There's a rationalization used by underemployed startup workers that goes something like, "you're going to lose your BigCo job anyways, so the startup isn't that much riskier". It isn't valid. When a startup fails, you are very likely to be broke. The only thing you've added to your resume is a company nobody has heard of. You've been working and networking with people who are going to stay in startups. It's also harder to leave a startup preemptively, because all startups look risky all the time. When you leave a BigCo job, you are very likely to have a nest egg, because they paid you consistently and generously and you were able to tune your standard of living. You've been working and networking with people who then diffused through a variety of other BigCo's in your area. Everybody you interview with knows the company you worked for. And if layoffs are coming, you saw them coming at least 6 months ago. The risks involved in startups aren't comparable to the risks of a BigCo career. That's why most people in our industry work for BigCo's, profitably, for the entirety of their careers. Also, speaking as a long-term veteran of startups: career stagnation and unrecognized toil are the standard everywhere.
- pw0ncakes 17y ago
  Fair enough. Your points are correct, and for this reason I'd advocate not working at a personal loss for more than 6 months, and only for equity (with the caveat not to put money or time into a business that you can't afford to lose). I'm not advocating working in startups to the detriment of all else, but I think it's worth doing when young, if you'll learn a lot by doing so. That said, if my current project were to fail, I'd probably use the experience to get into grad school or a place like Google (on better terms than I'd be able to get without the experience, I hope).

tptacek 17y ago

There's a rationalization used by underemployed startup workers that goes something like, "you're going to lose your BigCo job anyways, so the startup isn't that much riskier". It isn't valid. When a startup fails, you are very likely to be broke. The only thing you've added to your resume is a company nobody has heard of. You've been working and networking with people who are going to stay in startups. It's also harder to leave a startup preemptively, because all startups look risky all the time. When you leave a BigCo job, you are very likely to have a nest egg, because they paid you consistently and generously and you were able to tune your standard of living. You've been working and networking with people who then diffused through a variety of other BigCo's in your area. Everybody you interview with knows the company you worked for. And if layoffs are coming, you saw them coming at least 6 months ago. The risks involved in startups aren't comparable to the risks of a BigCo career. That's why most people in our industry work for BigCo's, profitably, for the entirety of their careers. Also, speaking as a long-term veteran of startups: career stagnation and unrecognized toil are the standard everywhere.

pw0ncakes 17y ago
Fair enough. Your points are correct, and for this reason I'd advocate not working at a personal loss for more than 6 months, and only for equity (with the caveat not to put money or time into a business that you can't afford to lose). I'm not advocating working in startups to the detriment of all else, but I think it's worth doing when young, if you'll learn a lot by doing so. That said, if my current project were to fail, I'd probably use the experience to get into grad school or a place like Google (on better terms than I'd be able to get without the experience, I hope).