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It's a well-written article, interesting to read. But the narrative suffers from one major flaw: the residents of East New York themselves are denied any sort
by pjlegato 11y ago
It's a well-written article, interesting to read.
But the narrative suffers from one major flaw: the residents of East New York themselves are denied any sort of agency whatsoever.
They are not treated as real human beings in this article, but rather depicted as purely inert, incapable of taking any action themselves, entirely passive, battered about by the cruel winds of fate. In this article, things are exclusively done to them, not ever by them.
The city did this to them, failed to do that for them. Drug dealers and gangs did this do them. Industry closed and did this to them. The NYPD did this to try to help, but also did that to make things worse. And so on.
All probably true. However, there is another piece that he missed: what is the community itself doing about all this?
Nowhere in this article is any East New Yorker depicted as having any sort of agency at all. The few times he actually talks with people from the area, it's to depict them as passively asking for help from outside, or passively complaining about what the outside did to them.
That's what's lacking here. Where are the voices of the people on the inside who are trying to make things better? What steps have they taken, what is working, what didn't work?
- simplemath 11y agoYeah, if only the children of ENY would find their fucking bootstraps... They are in fact denied agency. What's lacking in ENY are any meaningful community resources, from schooling, to infrastructure to policing. It's not the people's fault they were born into that hellhole. Let me guess, if somehow we could bring market forces to bear on Brownsville, the free market fairy would save all of these communities from themselves. Give me a break.
- pjlegato 11y agoFirst, these are strawman arguments. I said nothing about bootstraps or market forces at all. The general tone (the emotionally charged use of the word "fucking," and so on) is also entirely uncalled for. Are we here for a rational discussion, or to berate and insult those who disagree with us? Second, do you honestly believe that nobody at all in ENY is trying to do anything at all to try to make anything better in their own community? Or do they sit idly by and wait for a wise, educated, ostentatiously sympathetic, upper middle class white liberal to come in and fight off the various boogeymen that they are incapable of tackling themselves? Don't you think that's a rather condescending and patronizing attitude to take to people whom you clearly regard as your inferiors, whom you regard as incapable of doing anything for themselves?
- eric_h 11y ago> Second, do you honestly believe that nobody at all in ENY is trying to do anything at all to try to make anything better in their own community? I believe most people in ENY are just trying to get out. I'm not sure anyone is terribly optimistic about inciting change from the inside.
- pjlegato 11y agoYou may be right. I don't know. I haven't spent months going around interviewing people in ENY. This is precisely the sort of thing that the author should have covered in the article.
- eric_h 11y agoI have a friend who grew up there, getting out was his top priority. Fortunately, he succeeded.
- simplemath 11y agoYou DID though, implying that it's the community that needs to take more concerted better action on its own, to reverse 100 years of endemic sociopolitical dysfunction. It's basic libertarian boilerplate bullshit.
- pjlegato 11y agoYou are, again, putting words into my mouth. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man I said nothing at all about the community needing to do anything whatsoever. I was talking about the article, not the community. I also very explicitly said that all the various outside forces that the author blames for these problems are probably true.
- ythl 11y agoStop attacking the people of ENY. They did nothing wrong. You said they all need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, and that's what I take issue with here. You triggered me.
- wrsh07 11y agoI interpreted the parent comment as a plea to journalists to actually listen to what the residents of ENY are saying, rather than simply relating the changes happening around them. I don't think they were implying it's the fault of the people in ENY [ie they weren't suggesting they bootstrap themselves], just asking to hear their actual perspective.
- qntty 11y agoI agree. I think everyone who replied misread the parent comment, (s)he makes a good point.
- Retric 11y agoEveryone that stayed there and did not break the law was making things better. The rational choice is clearly moving somewhere else. Yet, neither of those are enough for you. How about you make wherever you live better. Quit your job and dedicate your life to improving things. Clearly it's your fault that anything anywhere is broken if only YOU had worked harder. PS: Your comment was clearly pointless blame shifting.
- pjlegato 11y agoI shifted no blame -- in fact, I very explicitly said that the author's various blamings of the various outside forces are all probably true. "Enough for me" is not the question. I pass no judgement on what the residents of ENY are or are not doing. I was rather commenting about the article, not the residents. The article purports to be a piece about the decay of ENY, yet did not mention anything about what people who actually live there are doing about their own situation. I am fairly certain such people exist, yet the author neglected to interview any of them, in favor of a pure "passive victimization by outside forces" narrative.
- Retric 11y agoYou can find thousands of people making a positive difference. The reason people live there in the first place is they don't have significant power. Volunteering at a food bank is not going to change the situation. In the end community action is often pointless at a larger scale. PS: Not to be overly negative but guess where the poor area is on this map: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Subway_map#/media/File:Official_New_York_City_Subway_Map_vc.jpg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_York_City_Subway_map#/medi...
- pjlegato 11y agoThis sounds like precisely the sort of investigation the author should have included in the article.
- InclinedPlane 11y agoSo.... what you're saying is that the least wealthy, most disenfranchised, most victimized, least politically powerful individuals should be able to counteract incredibly powerful external forces and just fix their communities? That seems horribly naive and borderline victim blaming.
- pjlegato 11y agoNo. Again, my comments were about the article, not the community. I did not say the community should or should not do anything at all. See my other comments in this thread for a fuller explanation.
- CPLX 11y agoThis comment strikes me as nonsensical. The entire article is a longform first person account by someone who grew up in that neighborhood. He is the voice of the person on the inside trying to make things better.
- pjlegato 11y agoHe didn't grow up in ENY. He says he grew up nearby, in a much more stable neighborhood run by the Mafia.