8 ms·

I like being that irresponsible one. Though it is impressive that Amazon has turned a delivery fee - that most people don't like paying - into an exclusive sub

I like being that irresponsible one. Though it is impressive that Amazon has turned a delivery fee - that most people don't like paying - into an exclusive subscription service. A service that customers fall over themselves to sign up for when it's offered at a discount.

ProAm 10y ago
It's very Apple-esque to be a member of an elite community.
- bonoboTP 10y ago
  How can subscription to a shipping service be compared to membership in a community? Where is the "community" in this? Do Prime-subscribes gather sometimes to discuss how they are subscribed to Prime?
  - ProAm 10y ago
    I was more relating the OPs comment: > Though it is impressive that Amazon has turned a delivery fee - that most people don't like paying - into an exclusive subscription service. Where Amazon has convinced people to prepay $100 per year for shipping on select items similar to how Apple has convinced customers to overpay on hardware and accessories to be part of the same style club. Community was probably the wrong word, but exclusive/elite membership maybe? And yes I hear people all the time talk about their prime memberships, especially at work.
fleitz 10y ago
It's the value of certainty that people are buying. Think of it more like 'Shipping Insurance', delivery fees are an unfortunate unavoidable thing, like car accidents. However, by purchasing 'shipping insurance' one can normalize the cost of shipping similar to the way one normalizes the cost of car accidents through car insurance. There is a virtuous circle too that is the opposite of moral hazard typically incurred by insurance companies as having certainty of cost makes risk taking less costly. Similarly, if shipping is free, then people order more things, creating economies of scale that reduce shipping costs, enabling amazon to make more profit, or price prime cheaper.
- manyxcxi 10y ago
  There are other valid reasons besides not paying the initial shipping cossts. Typically anything shipped Prime is a no-fee/no-hassle return. Great for when you're buying clothes. After accidentally buying something NOT shipped prime, then getting hit with a bunch of fees from the seller to return it I've gotten much more careful about it. We also get discounts on our monthly recurring purchases that make it cheaper than going to the store to replenish, not even factoring for saved time. There's also the Prime video- which has a surprisingly good catalog of shows and movies (in the US at least). I still watch Netflix more, but I use prime video at least once a week.
  - fleitz 10y ago
    I got prime pretty much for the new Top Gear, everything else is just gravy. And now that I know I can return stuff I'm probably going to start buying clothes through prime.
  - sokoloff 10y ago
    Most non-clothing items are not no-fee returns unless Amazon has made an error or the product is defective. My wife and I double-bought a gift for our daughter and the return shipping fee was going to be $6.99 as it was our mistake. That's fair enough, IMO, but it's not free. Returns are often free on clothing/shoes and around Christmas. Prime Video is indeed a bigger benefit than I originally thought. The kids watch it several times a week and I probably once a week.
MichaelGG 10y ago
I cancelled it because Amazon's abusing their position. Refusing to sell Chromecast and Apple TV, then lying, repeatedly, about the reason when asked? I've been an Amazon customer for 13 years. I was rather annoyed to see them go with the anti-Wikileaks and try to be "sensitive" by banning certain cultural items. But this shows they've zero commitment to selling products customers want. Edit: And it really hurts. Some times I buy stuff from Amazon every day of the week. I've tried Jet.com, which is just a poor experience. I hate to cry antitrust but Amazon really dominates in any usable online sales env, it seems.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- sbank 10y ago
  Maybe you don't like it, and you are fully within your rights to cancel, but it is not abuse. They can or should be able to carry whatever products they damn well please.
  - greghatch 10y ago
    I think that was his point, he's critical of Amazon because they lied about their reasoning for not carrying the products, not questioning the legality of not carrying specific products. I thought that was obvious, and a charitable interpretation of his post would've made this clear, I think.
    - MichaelGG 10y ago
      Yep. Several CSRs told me "Oh it's out of stock" (not explaining the 404, or no "marketplace" vendors). I escalated. Then I was told the Chromecast was not sold due to "too many complaints". A supervisor then flat out denied that, as well as denied there being any ban on any such product. I asked about the Apple TV. After other lame "stocking" issues, a supervisor said "oh, we don't have licenses to sell Apple TV" and went on about how there's all sorts of legal issues. It's vile for a company that's supposedly pro-consumer.
andys627 10y ago
The fee is getting paid somehow - either by you up front, as a subscription, or for "free" built into the cost of the item.
- zeven7 10y ago
  That's not what I've heard. A quick search found me this: > The company loses an estimated $1 billion to $2 billion on Prime shipping annually http://www.marketwatch.com/story/is-free-shipping-killing-amazons-profit-2015-07-14 http://www.marketwatch.com/story/is-free-shipping-killing-am... Amazon wants market share enough to absorb a loss on shipping costs. It's part of why Amazon is still not profitable.
  - tamana 10y ago
    That's not a fact, that's some rando's guess.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - andrewfong 10y ago
    Saying Amazon is absorbing a loss on shipping costs to get market share implies that that they're engaged in predatory pricing (i.e. they're selling below cost to get market share with the intent to raise prices once competition has been destroyed). There might be some truth to that, but the better explanation for why Amazon isn't profitable is that it's simply plowing all of its profits back into the business. This link is older, but it does a pretty good job of going through the numbers and Jeff Bezo's thinking: http://a16z.com/2014/09/05/why-amazon-has-no-profits-and-why-it-works/ http://a16z.com/2014/09/05/why-amazon-has-no-profits-and-why...
    - nitrogen 10y ago
      It's not uncommon for an ecommerce site to charge less for shipping than it actually costs them (for perception/psychology reasons), and make up the difference on margin or services.
ArkyBeagle 10y ago
It's very effective sleight of hand. The cherry on top is 2-day delivery being prepaid. I wouldn't have paid for 2-day otherwise. They "fixed" that for me. The whole thing makes going to a brick and mortar store feel like going to the DMV.
- pc86 10y ago
  With the exception that if you drive to store and back home for a single item, you'll have the item inside of an hour. If you live close, inside of 15 minutes? When I know I will need batteries in a week, I'll buy a box on Amazon and get it in a few days. If I need batteries now, I'll have them within an hour. It's certainly not "like going to the DMV."
  - eric_h 10y ago
    Well, the advent of prime now means you can get many things in an hour from Amazon, though of course there are additional fees that are not covered by the annual prime membership fees.
  - ErrantX 10y ago
    Here in the UK Amazon seem to be heading for same-day delivery for Prime customers (we already have free next day on Prime) and ultimately "within the hour" types of delivery in major cities.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - ArkyBeagle 10y ago
    Relative to not having go it feels like going to the DMV.
- mikeash 10y ago
  It's funny, it feels like the opposite to me. Going to a regular store is pretty simple. Buying with Prime is a pain in the ass, since half the stuff they sell isn't eligible. Amazon is rarely the cheapest option anymore, too, so I no longer have the luxury of skipping the price comparison and knowing I'm getting a pretty good deal anyway.
audleman 10y ago
I was gifted Prime and it surprised me how awesome it was. Say I want to buy a few pairs of SmartWool Socks, but since I'm buying them over the internet don't get a chance to try them on. Do I buy 7 pairs and risk it? No, I just buy 1 pair and get it in 2 days with no shipping fee. In fact I buy all kinds of things now on Amazon because I can get them in 2 days with no shipping fee. I get that I'm paying upfront for shipping, of course, which really only incentivizes me to shop more on Amazon. After a certain number of orders I'm beating the system, and that's fun. Plus you get a lot of freebies, like movies.
- hvm 10y ago
  > After a certain number of orders I'm beating the system, and that's fun. That's only true if you would have bought those items anyway. If you wouldn't have then the system is beating you.
  - brownbat 10y ago
    > That's only true if you would have bought those items anyway. And if you would have insisted on 2-day shipping for everything you buy, which seems unlikely. Some purchases, sure, but everything?
_pmf_ 10y ago
That's a concise description of why I (as an Amazon fanboy) have probably unconsciously abstained from becoming a Prime member ... something just smelled off.

ProAm 10y ago

It's very Apple-esque to be a member of an elite community.

bonoboTP 10y ago
How can subscription to a shipping service be compared to membership in a community? Where is the "community" in this? Do Prime-subscribes gather sometimes to discuss how they are subscribed to Prime?
- ProAm 10y ago
  I was more relating the OPs comment: > Though it is impressive that Amazon has turned a delivery fee - that most people don't like paying - into an exclusive subscription service. Where Amazon has convinced people to prepay $100 per year for shipping on select items similar to how Apple has convinced customers to overpay on hardware and accessories to be part of the same style club. Community was probably the wrong word, but exclusive/elite membership maybe? And yes I hear people all the time talk about their prime memberships, especially at work.

fleitz 10y ago

It's the value of certainty that people are buying. Think of it more like 'Shipping Insurance', delivery fees are an unfortunate unavoidable thing, like car accidents. However, by purchasing 'shipping insurance' one can normalize the cost of shipping similar to the way one normalizes the cost of car accidents through car insurance. There is a virtuous circle too that is the opposite of moral hazard typically incurred by insurance companies as having certainty of cost makes risk taking less costly. Similarly, if shipping is free, then people order more things, creating economies of scale that reduce shipping costs, enabling amazon to make more profit, or price prime cheaper.

manyxcxi 10y ago
There are other valid reasons besides not paying the initial shipping cossts. Typically anything shipped Prime is a no-fee/no-hassle return. Great for when you're buying clothes. After accidentally buying something NOT shipped prime, then getting hit with a bunch of fees from the seller to return it I've gotten much more careful about it. We also get discounts on our monthly recurring purchases that make it cheaper than going to the store to replenish, not even factoring for saved time. There's also the Prime video- which has a surprisingly good catalog of shows and movies (in the US at least). I still watch Netflix more, but I use prime video at least once a week.
- fleitz 10y ago
  I got prime pretty much for the new Top Gear, everything else is just gravy. And now that I know I can return stuff I'm probably going to start buying clothes through prime.
- sokoloff 10y ago
  Most non-clothing items are not no-fee returns unless Amazon has made an error or the product is defective. My wife and I double-bought a gift for our daughter and the return shipping fee was going to be $6.99 as it was our mistake. That's fair enough, IMO, but it's not free. Returns are often free on clothing/shoes and around Christmas. Prime Video is indeed a bigger benefit than I originally thought. The kids watch it several times a week and I probably once a week.

MichaelGG 10y ago

I cancelled it because Amazon's abusing their position. Refusing to sell Chromecast and Apple TV, then lying, repeatedly, about the reason when asked? I've been an Amazon customer for 13 years. I was rather annoyed to see them go with the anti-Wikileaks and try to be "sensitive" by banning certain cultural items. But this shows they've zero commitment to selling products customers want. Edit: And it really hurts. Some times I buy stuff from Amazon every day of the week. I've tried Jet.com, which is just a poor experience. I hate to cry antitrust but Amazon really dominates in any usable online sales env, it seems.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
sbank 10y ago
Maybe you don't like it, and you are fully within your rights to cancel, but it is not abuse. They can or should be able to carry whatever products they damn well please.
- greghatch 10y ago
  I think that was his point, he's critical of Amazon because they lied about their reasoning for not carrying the products, not questioning the legality of not carrying specific products. I thought that was obvious, and a charitable interpretation of his post would've made this clear, I think.
  - MichaelGG 10y ago
    Yep. Several CSRs told me "Oh it's out of stock" (not explaining the 404, or no "marketplace" vendors). I escalated. Then I was told the Chromecast was not sold due to "too many complaints". A supervisor then flat out denied that, as well as denied there being any ban on any such product. I asked about the Apple TV. After other lame "stocking" issues, a supervisor said "oh, we don't have licenses to sell Apple TV" and went on about how there's all sorts of legal issues. It's vile for a company that's supposedly pro-consumer.

andys627 10y ago

The fee is getting paid somehow - either by you up front, as a subscription, or for "free" built into the cost of the item.

zeven7 10y ago
That's not what I've heard. A quick search found me this: > The company loses an estimated $1 billion to $2 billion on Prime shipping annually http://www.marketwatch.com/story/is-free-shipping-killing-amazons-profit-2015-07-14 http://www.marketwatch.com/story/is-free-shipping-killing-am... Amazon wants market share enough to absorb a loss on shipping costs. It's part of why Amazon is still not profitable.
- tamana 10y ago
  That's not a fact, that's some rando's guess.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- andrewfong 10y ago
  Saying Amazon is absorbing a loss on shipping costs to get market share implies that that they're engaged in predatory pricing (i.e. they're selling below cost to get market share with the intent to raise prices once competition has been destroyed). There might be some truth to that, but the better explanation for why Amazon isn't profitable is that it's simply plowing all of its profits back into the business. This link is older, but it does a pretty good job of going through the numbers and Jeff Bezo's thinking: http://a16z.com/2014/09/05/why-amazon-has-no-profits-and-why-it-works/ http://a16z.com/2014/09/05/why-amazon-has-no-profits-and-why...
  - nitrogen 10y ago
    It's not uncommon for an ecommerce site to charge less for shipping than it actually costs them (for perception/psychology reasons), and make up the difference on margin or services.

ArkyBeagle 10y ago

It's very effective sleight of hand. The cherry on top is 2-day delivery being prepaid. I wouldn't have paid for 2-day otherwise. They "fixed" that for me. The whole thing makes going to a brick and mortar store feel like going to the DMV.

pc86 10y ago
With the exception that if you drive to store and back home for a single item, you'll have the item inside of an hour. If you live close, inside of 15 minutes? When I know I will need batteries in a week, I'll buy a box on Amazon and get it in a few days. If I need batteries now, I'll have them within an hour. It's certainly not "like going to the DMV."
- eric_h 10y ago
  Well, the advent of prime now means you can get many things in an hour from Amazon, though of course there are additional fees that are not covered by the annual prime membership fees.
- ErrantX 10y ago
  Here in the UK Amazon seem to be heading for same-day delivery for Prime customers (we already have free next day on Prime) and ultimately "within the hour" types of delivery in major cities.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- ArkyBeagle 10y ago
  Relative to not having go it feels like going to the DMV.
mikeash 10y ago
It's funny, it feels like the opposite to me. Going to a regular store is pretty simple. Buying with Prime is a pain in the ass, since half the stuff they sell isn't eligible. Amazon is rarely the cheapest option anymore, too, so I no longer have the luxury of skipping the price comparison and knowing I'm getting a pretty good deal anyway.

audleman 10y ago

I was gifted Prime and it surprised me how awesome it was. Say I want to buy a few pairs of SmartWool Socks, but since I'm buying them over the internet don't get a chance to try them on. Do I buy 7 pairs and risk it? No, I just buy 1 pair and get it in 2 days with no shipping fee. In fact I buy all kinds of things now on Amazon because I can get them in 2 days with no shipping fee. I get that I'm paying upfront for shipping, of course, which really only incentivizes me to shop more on Amazon. After a certain number of orders I'm beating the system, and that's fun. Plus you get a lot of freebies, like movies.

hvm 10y ago
> After a certain number of orders I'm beating the system, and that's fun. That's only true if you would have bought those items anyway. If you wouldn't have then the system is beating you.
- brownbat 10y ago
  > That's only true if you would have bought those items anyway. And if you would have insisted on 2-day shipping for everything you buy, which seems unlikely. Some purchases, sure, but everything?

_pmf_ 10y ago

That's a concise description of why I (as an Amazon fanboy) have probably unconsciously abstained from becoming a Prime member ... something just smelled off.