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It took them so long to produce a version capable of running common European systems (separate hot water), that I lost interest long back. They finally release

It took them so long to produce a version capable of running common European systems (separate hot water), that I lost interest long back. They finally released something christmas last year. The cock ups along the way didn't help either. Wouldn't touch them with a barge pole now. Honeywell on the other hand seem to have smarter smart kit, and a decent reputation.

dangravell 11y ago
Honeywell's Evohome product is much smarter, you're right. As is Heat Genius. They are probably a slightly different market though, because have more capable systems, being able to do soft zoning. Also arguably, neither are quite as slick looking. The trouble with Honeywell is that they should've been doing this stuff a decade ago. Personally I think all these thermostats are just sticking plasters over the real problem: houses shouldn't leak heat nearly as much as they do. We know how to fix it, it's a technically solved problem, but regulation and government intervention just isn't keeping up.
- ghaff 11y ago
  >houses shouldn't leak heat nearly as much as they do. We know how to fix it, it's a technically solved problem, but regulation and government intervention just isn't keeping up. The house I live in is almost 200 years old. What sort of regulation and government intervention do you have in mind? Should everyone with a house that's not up to the latest modern insulation standards be forced to undertake a major construction project to update all their walls and windows? As with many things, the issue isn't with the technology and standards that exist today. It's with the large installed base that can't be just wished away.
  - anexprogrammer 11y ago
    The UK had, for a while, a reasonable approach to insulation. Historically, especially post-war, we had some terribly poor housing as far as thermal efficiency went. The energy companies were required to provide free and discounted energy saving measures for their customers, to a certain value each year. This was as part of the overall carbon lowering measures. They typcally provided loft and wall insulation, both of which could be done in a day. If you had solid walls it took a little longer and some properties weren't suitable. For the vast majority it was quick, easy and cheap. No major construction required either for most.
    - ghaff 11y ago
      When CFL bulbs were new (and pricey) there were a number of programs to sell those at discounted prices to consumers through the power companies. I've never heard of anything comparable wrt insulation although that doesn't mean there hasn't been such. I've actually done a lot with my house when I've been having construction done anyway but there's no easy way to retrofit insulation into the existing walls. (Plaster lath etc.)
  - ZeroGravitas 11y ago
    Well, they can introduce a (further) carbon tax and the people who choose to heat the area around their house can pay more than the people who only heat inside their house. They can ensure that every house sale includes the information on how well insulated a house is, and those who like to be cosy or save money or the planet can buy a different home. No one's forcing you to do anything, they may however object to you forcing them to pay for your extravagances via market externalities.
- anexprogrammer 11y ago
  Agree with all of that. Especially about the need for better insulation - comparing our standard of buildings to Scandinavia is just embarrasing, and expensive.

dangravell 11y ago

Honeywell's Evohome product is much smarter, you're right. As is Heat Genius. They are probably a slightly different market though, because have more capable systems, being able to do soft zoning. Also arguably, neither are quite as slick looking. The trouble with Honeywell is that they should've been doing this stuff a decade ago. Personally I think all these thermostats are just sticking plasters over the real problem: houses shouldn't leak heat nearly as much as they do. We know how to fix it, it's a technically solved problem, but regulation and government intervention just isn't keeping up.

ghaff 11y ago
>houses shouldn't leak heat nearly as much as they do. We know how to fix it, it's a technically solved problem, but regulation and government intervention just isn't keeping up. The house I live in is almost 200 years old. What sort of regulation and government intervention do you have in mind? Should everyone with a house that's not up to the latest modern insulation standards be forced to undertake a major construction project to update all their walls and windows? As with many things, the issue isn't with the technology and standards that exist today. It's with the large installed base that can't be just wished away.
- anexprogrammer 11y ago
  The UK had, for a while, a reasonable approach to insulation. Historically, especially post-war, we had some terribly poor housing as far as thermal efficiency went. The energy companies were required to provide free and discounted energy saving measures for their customers, to a certain value each year. This was as part of the overall carbon lowering measures. They typcally provided loft and wall insulation, both of which could be done in a day. If you had solid walls it took a little longer and some properties weren't suitable. For the vast majority it was quick, easy and cheap. No major construction required either for most.
  - ghaff 11y ago
    When CFL bulbs were new (and pricey) there were a number of programs to sell those at discounted prices to consumers through the power companies. I've never heard of anything comparable wrt insulation although that doesn't mean there hasn't been such. I've actually done a lot with my house when I've been having construction done anyway but there's no easy way to retrofit insulation into the existing walls. (Plaster lath etc.)
- ZeroGravitas 11y ago
  Well, they can introduce a (further) carbon tax and the people who choose to heat the area around their house can pay more than the people who only heat inside their house. They can ensure that every house sale includes the information on how well insulated a house is, and those who like to be cosy or save money or the planet can buy a different home. No one's forcing you to do anything, they may however object to you forcing them to pay for your extravagances via market externalities.
anexprogrammer 11y ago
Agree with all of that. Especially about the need for better insulation - comparing our standard of buildings to Scandinavia is just embarrasing, and expensive.