4 ms·

> Saturated fats still do cause heart disease, strokes, alzheimers.. All the studies claiming to make these links have been comprehensively debunked. And it's

> Saturated fats still do cause heart disease, strokes, alzheimers.. All the studies claiming to make these links have been comprehensively debunked. And it's worth remembering that the vast, vast bulk of fats and cholesterol in your body are not dietary, they were produced inside your body from other macro-nutrients. And they are essential. Without them you would die. On a very basic level, blood flow gets blocked because inflammation in your arteries causes cholesterol manufactured by your liver to stick to the walls and build up. Consuming saturated fat does not cause this inflammation. Whereas there is evidence that consuming sugar does.

padelt 11y ago
It is my understanding that your reply is the reasonable state of affairs. Do you have some "canonical", go-to link that makes your claim approachable to ordinary people? Say parents?
- pigpaws 11y ago
  http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2716748/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2716748/ http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v67/n8/full/ejcn2013116a.html http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v67/n8/full/ejcn2013116a....
  - tkyjonathan 11y ago
    Ketogenic diets increase all-cause mortality http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20820038 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20820038 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22850317 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22850317 http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(15)00350-2 http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(15)0... and make you gain weight http://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-study-finds-cutting-dietary-fat-reduces-body-fat-more-cutting-carbs http://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-study-finds...
    - pigpaws 11y ago
      not compared to a high carb/sugar based diet as we can plainly see in everyday life. Re: 20820038 - Keto is low carb, moderate protein. it doesn't really matter where you get the protein from. Re: 22850371 - Again, Ketogenic is not HIGH protein diet as eating too much protein is just turned into sugar which defeats the whole purpose of eating keto... so yes, if you eat a lot of fat, and a lot of sugar, you will die sooner. re: Cell.com - it measured whether or not these people went into ketosis for 6 whole days, when it takes upwards of 3 months to become keto-adapted. It takes the average person (not the morbidly obese person) 3-5 days just to get into ketosis, let alone keto-adapted.
      - Uw7yTcf36gTc 11y ago
        how could I calculate what is moderate compared to high protein? I agree with you, but don't know when I am in eating too much protein.
        pigpaws 11y ago
        every one is different. I have found a good basic starting point (for me) would be .5g protein per pound of body weight and then lower it based on how you feel. So for a 240lb person who does not lift 'for gains', maybe goes to the gym twice a week, ballpark of 120g (+/- 20%) a day would be fine, it just depends on how you feel. Keto macros are supposed to (generally) be: 80% calories from fat (I try to get 200g/day) 15% calories from protein (I try to keep mine around 120g/day) 5% calories from carbs (keep it under net 20g/day) This is pretty difficult to do. I usually end up somewhere around 70-75% fat, 7%ish carbs, 20%ish protein. But at least I can eat bacon wrapped avocados without guilt... i'm constantly adjusting to get my macros. I just added MCT oil to the daily diet. I was (am?) obese when I started this and I've dropped a considerable amount of weight (30+lbs), and my blood sugar has dropped and stabilized. I'm not keto-adapted yet, though.
tkyjonathan 11y ago
Inflammation and plaque on your artery walls are two different things. Also, sources of saturated fats such as meat and dairy cause inflammation.
- pigpaws 11y ago
  http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2010/01/13/ajcn.2009.27725.abstract http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2010/01/13/ajcn.2009...
  - tkyjonathan 11y ago
    The problem with that study is that it is observational and was set up to fail. Metabolic ward and interventional studies still show that if you eat more saturated fats, your cholesterol increases. For example, if you add 30g of butter to your diet every day, your cholesterol will go up. Sorry for breaking it to you.
    - pigpaws 11y ago
      I never said it wouldn't "go up" - but that butter may do more good than harm. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12716665 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12716665 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2619783 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2619783 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20071648 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20071648 "CONCLUSIONS: A meta-analysis of prospective epidemiologic studies showed that there is no significant evidence for concluding that dietary saturated fat is associated with an increased risk of CHD or CVD. More data are needed to elucidate whether CVD risks are likely to be influenced by the specific nutrients used to replace saturated fat."

padelt 11y ago

It is my understanding that your reply is the reasonable state of affairs. Do you have some "canonical", go-to link that makes your claim approachable to ordinary people? Say parents?

pigpaws 11y ago
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2716748/ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2716748/ http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v67/n8/full/ejcn2013116a.html http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v67/n8/full/ejcn2013116a....
- tkyjonathan 11y ago
  Ketogenic diets increase all-cause mortality http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20820038 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20820038 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22850317 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22850317 http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(15)00350-2 http://www.cell.com/cell-metabolism/fulltext/S1550-4131(15)0... and make you gain weight http://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-study-finds-cutting-dietary-fat-reduces-body-fat-more-cutting-carbs http://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/nih-study-finds...
  - pigpaws 11y ago
    not compared to a high carb/sugar based diet as we can plainly see in everyday life. Re: 20820038 - Keto is low carb, moderate protein. it doesn't really matter where you get the protein from. Re: 22850371 - Again, Ketogenic is not HIGH protein diet as eating too much protein is just turned into sugar which defeats the whole purpose of eating keto... so yes, if you eat a lot of fat, and a lot of sugar, you will die sooner. re: Cell.com - it measured whether or not these people went into ketosis for 6 whole days, when it takes upwards of 3 months to become keto-adapted. It takes the average person (not the morbidly obese person) 3-5 days just to get into ketosis, let alone keto-adapted.
    - Uw7yTcf36gTc 11y ago
      how could I calculate what is moderate compared to high protein? I agree with you, but don't know when I am in eating too much protein.
      - pigpaws 11y ago
        every one is different. I have found a good basic starting point (for me) would be .5g protein per pound of body weight and then lower it based on how you feel. So for a 240lb person who does not lift 'for gains', maybe goes to the gym twice a week, ballpark of 120g (+/- 20%) a day would be fine, it just depends on how you feel. Keto macros are supposed to (generally) be: 80% calories from fat (I try to get 200g/day) 15% calories from protein (I try to keep mine around 120g/day) 5% calories from carbs (keep it under net 20g/day) This is pretty difficult to do. I usually end up somewhere around 70-75% fat, 7%ish carbs, 20%ish protein. But at least I can eat bacon wrapped avocados without guilt... i'm constantly adjusting to get my macros. I just added MCT oil to the daily diet. I was (am?) obese when I started this and I've dropped a considerable amount of weight (30+lbs), and my blood sugar has dropped and stabilized. I'm not keto-adapted yet, though.

tkyjonathan 11y ago

Inflammation and plaque on your artery walls are two different things. Also, sources of saturated fats such as meat and dairy cause inflammation.

pigpaws 11y ago
http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2010/01/13/ajcn.2009.27725.abstract http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/early/2010/01/13/ajcn.2009...
- tkyjonathan 11y ago
  The problem with that study is that it is observational and was set up to fail. Metabolic ward and interventional studies still show that if you eat more saturated fats, your cholesterol increases. For example, if you add 30g of butter to your diet every day, your cholesterol will go up. Sorry for breaking it to you.
  - pigpaws 11y ago
    I never said it wouldn't "go up" - but that butter may do more good than harm. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12716665 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12716665 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2619783 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2619783 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20071648 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20071648 "CONCLUSIONS: A meta-analysis of prospective epidemiologic studies showed that there is no significant evidence for concluding that dietary saturated fat is associated with an increased risk of CHD or CVD. More data are needed to elucidate whether CVD risks are likely to be influenced by the specific nutrients used to replace saturated fat."