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Here's a crazy theory of mine - just planting some seeds. Industrial scale farming is creating "institutionalized" plants - we call them "fields", but they cou

Here's a crazy theory of mine - just planting some seeds. Industrial scale farming is creating "institutionalized" plants - we call them "fields", but they could be looked at as industrial plant camps, were plants don't have to do any effort to grow - there are no pests, there is no competition from other plants, there's plenty of food (fertilizer) and water, etc. We take care of everything for them so the plants grow up big and "lazy". Similar thing is happening to farmed animals, who are fed these "lazy" plants and kept in similar "food camps" in conditions which prevent physical movement, competition or effort. Plants or animals, goal is to obtain highest weight in shortest amount of time in order to increase profits. I remember the taste of the vegetables from my grandmother's garden. Rich, full and powerful. Plants were strong, showed signs of fighting for survival - having scars and being bitten by insects, etc. My grandmother took care of those plants personally. She talked to them, she touched them, she collected pests manually. Similar thing with the animals that she had on her farm. Of course there was no obesity in my grandmother's village. I think there is a connection between "lazy" plants and low energy that it generates in their consumers - be it humans or animals. This "laziness" and the instruction to grow to large sizes may be transmitted from species to species by mechanisms which might not be known yet.

CJefferson 11y ago
I don't think that's the problem, I think you need to go one level deeper. I've lost 52kg in the last year, and a large part of that was eating less processed food. Not because I am a hippy, but because almost every part of food processing leads to easier to digest, more calorie rich, food. It is almost impossible to get fat (in my experience) from eating unprocessed vegetables, leafs, and whole cooked pieces of meat -- the food is mostly not calorie rich enough. It is however a much more expensive and time consuming way to live.
- pitchka 11y ago
  Eating veggies and fruits is more expensive? How can that be since one needs tons of grains to feed a cow, tons of grains to get milk? I think you've been scammed by the "organic and natural" veggie industry. As for time consuming, have no idea why. Most of the dishes that I do take from 15-30 minutes to prepare. This fear of processed foods is without grounds.
Jach 11y ago
Do you believe in homeopathic therapies too? (This is asked mostly in good faith -- if you do, at least you're consistent, if you don't, then I'd be curious about the contradiction.)
- justsaysmthng 11y ago
  Not at all. I'm just trying to voice ideas out of the box of current 'scientific' dogma, with the risk of being downvoted of course. It is dogma because a lot of people blindly believe the conclusions of 'studies' they read about in the press and then go ahead and fight for those ideas, even though those are often wrong. Nutrition is one such area, were a lot of people are experts because they know words like 'protein' and 'aminoacid'. Thinking intuitively or using metaphor is a good way to break out of dogma. We understand a lot more than we care to admit this way. 'Crazy' intuitive ideas often serve as vectors or pointers in a certain direction, which can then be explored using rigorous scientific methods. That's what I meant when I sad 'just planting seeds'. Maybe it will inspire someone to actually look into it.
  - rwjwjuwjudf 11y ago
    What you said makes sense right up until the last bit about the lazy plants generating low energy in humans. There is no science to substantiate that, like none at all. I think it's more likely that we're living in a system that seeks unwittingly to extract the most value, hence the lazy plants and the lazy people. Lazy plants is obvious, but why are lazy people more valuable? Because they are perfect office drones, and that's what you need to keep the system running, or growing even. Not healthy people that wouldn't tolerate sitting at a desk for 8 hours a day. So, reasonable thinking, just skip the pseudo/non-science stuff because it just gets in the way. My take on your idea is just speculation and conjecture that isn't wrong prima facie, and is also unfalsifiable.
    - justsaysmthng 11y ago
      > There is no science to substantiate that, like none at all. Of course there is none, that's why I prefixed that with "here's a crazy theory of mine". How can we explore new ideas if we're going to stay within the bounds of what science can substantiate ? I think brainstorming, throwing random ideas around, even stupid or absurd ones is very useful. We have no problem listening to songs or poetry or enjoying art that doesn't make sense .. not because we get valid information out of it, but because they trigger thought processes inside us which can later lead to useful insights... Sometimes even totally absurd ideas can lead you in the right direction. But anyway, the "lazy" plants thing.. The idea that there is a "life force" that can be transmitted from one animal/plant to another is as old as humans. People have eaten hearts of animals, drank their blood, sought and consumed power giving plants since forever. But does such a thing even exist ? What is this "life force" ? Is it what the Chinese call "chi", or the Japanese call "ki" or the Indians call "prana" or the ancient greek stoics called "pneuma" or the Hebrews call "ruach"... ? It's that thing which differentiates a living cell from a cell that's just died - structurally and biochemically they are almost identical - yet in one of them all the processes have stopped and disintegration into basic molecules has begun. It's something that living beings (plants) extract from sunlight and then send over the conveyor belt we call "the food chain", to be transformed, stored and used for physical movement, observation and even thought. It's not just "calories", there is a certain strength - desire to live and procreate - inherent in any living being which is different from the total amount of energy released during oxidation - which we call "calories". It's dangerous for a scientist to explore this area because it's bounding this "spirituality" thing which is just not good, because science is against anything with soul and stuff.. But maybe that's just dogma and it stops us from seeing more of reality. So I don't think it's totally absurd to look into these ancient concepts with fresh eyes and not fear the ridicule. Edit: Sorry, got carried away ... I've got code to ship !

CJefferson 11y ago

I don't think that's the problem, I think you need to go one level deeper. I've lost 52kg in the last year, and a large part of that was eating less processed food. Not because I am a hippy, but because almost every part of food processing leads to easier to digest, more calorie rich, food. It is almost impossible to get fat (in my experience) from eating unprocessed vegetables, leafs, and whole cooked pieces of meat -- the food is mostly not calorie rich enough. It is however a much more expensive and time consuming way to live.

pitchka 11y ago
Eating veggies and fruits is more expensive? How can that be since one needs tons of grains to feed a cow, tons of grains to get milk? I think you've been scammed by the "organic and natural" veggie industry. As for time consuming, have no idea why. Most of the dishes that I do take from 15-30 minutes to prepare. This fear of processed foods is without grounds.

Jach 11y ago

Do you believe in homeopathic therapies too? (This is asked mostly in good faith -- if you do, at least you're consistent, if you don't, then I'd be curious about the contradiction.)

justsaysmthng 11y ago
Not at all. I'm just trying to voice ideas out of the box of current 'scientific' dogma, with the risk of being downvoted of course. It is dogma because a lot of people blindly believe the conclusions of 'studies' they read about in the press and then go ahead and fight for those ideas, even though those are often wrong. Nutrition is one such area, were a lot of people are experts because they know words like 'protein' and 'aminoacid'. Thinking intuitively or using metaphor is a good way to break out of dogma. We understand a lot more than we care to admit this way. 'Crazy' intuitive ideas often serve as vectors or pointers in a certain direction, which can then be explored using rigorous scientific methods. That's what I meant when I sad 'just planting seeds'. Maybe it will inspire someone to actually look into it.
- rwjwjuwjudf 11y ago
  What you said makes sense right up until the last bit about the lazy plants generating low energy in humans. There is no science to substantiate that, like none at all. I think it's more likely that we're living in a system that seeks unwittingly to extract the most value, hence the lazy plants and the lazy people. Lazy plants is obvious, but why are lazy people more valuable? Because they are perfect office drones, and that's what you need to keep the system running, or growing even. Not healthy people that wouldn't tolerate sitting at a desk for 8 hours a day. So, reasonable thinking, just skip the pseudo/non-science stuff because it just gets in the way. My take on your idea is just speculation and conjecture that isn't wrong prima facie, and is also unfalsifiable.
  - justsaysmthng 11y ago
    > There is no science to substantiate that, like none at all. Of course there is none, that's why I prefixed that with "here's a crazy theory of mine". How can we explore new ideas if we're going to stay within the bounds of what science can substantiate ? I think brainstorming, throwing random ideas around, even stupid or absurd ones is very useful. We have no problem listening to songs or poetry or enjoying art that doesn't make sense .. not because we get valid information out of it, but because they trigger thought processes inside us which can later lead to useful insights... Sometimes even totally absurd ideas can lead you in the right direction. But anyway, the "lazy" plants thing.. The idea that there is a "life force" that can be transmitted from one animal/plant to another is as old as humans. People have eaten hearts of animals, drank their blood, sought and consumed power giving plants since forever. But does such a thing even exist ? What is this "life force" ? Is it what the Chinese call "chi", or the Japanese call "ki" or the Indians call "prana" or the ancient greek stoics called "pneuma" or the Hebrews call "ruach"... ? It's that thing which differentiates a living cell from a cell that's just died - structurally and biochemically they are almost identical - yet in one of them all the processes have stopped and disintegration into basic molecules has begun. It's something that living beings (plants) extract from sunlight and then send over the conveyor belt we call "the food chain", to be transformed, stored and used for physical movement, observation and even thought. It's not just "calories", there is a certain strength - desire to live and procreate - inherent in any living being which is different from the total amount of energy released during oxidation - which we call "calories". It's dangerous for a scientist to explore this area because it's bounding this "spirituality" thing which is just not good, because science is against anything with soul and stuff.. But maybe that's just dogma and it stops us from seeing more of reality. So I don't think it's totally absurd to look into these ancient concepts with fresh eyes and not fear the ridicule. Edit: Sorry, got carried away ... I've got code to ship !