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> You act as if I am responsible for creating those problems. You live in a (somewhat) democratic system, you pay taxes and vote. Yes, you absolutely share res

> You act as if I am responsible for creating those problems. You live in a (somewhat) democratic system, you pay taxes and vote. Yes, you absolutely share responsibility. > Half of people you label as "homeless" are in that state because of severe mental illnesses. Did I have _anything_ to do with causing anyone's schizophrenia? No! But here you are speaking against measures that could help them because it might cost you a little money. > What about people that are "homeless" due to domestic violence, or bad luck? Nope, I didn't abuse anyone, and I've never caused anyone to have bad luck. Again, raising your hands and saying 'I had nothing to do with this problem, just let me ignore it.' is just disgusting, yes you weren't directly involved in these events, but don't fellow humans deserve compassion and empathy? > What I am against is a system where people that want to make a better life for themselves are blocked by unjust regulations. Think of someone whose passion is cooking, wants to start a new restaurant, but can't afford to buy $100,000 worth of commercial kitchen equipment required by today's laws. Or someone who wants to braid hair, but has to attend cosmetology school to learn to cut hair. Or someone that wants to work in software, but can't afford to live in the #1 city for it because NIMBYs have made it illegal to build new housing for decades. So you are against a system where the fairly-well-off face minor inconveniences, but people starving on the streets is a-okay? And, yes I agree that there are many stupid regulations that should be eliminated or at least reviewed, but most of these are not major issues, and many regulations are very valuable.

maxharris 11y ago
Mental illness is different because in many cases, the people in question are do not possess the faculties required to live normally, decently, or (in rare cases, peacefully) in society. They often end up in jail. A proud person's only choice here is institutionalization of some sort. The alternative is the status quo: the able suffer injuries to their own rights, the mentally ill suffer indignities they had no hand in creating, and the able end up paying just as much to keep them in jail anyway. In a sense, I think the reason someone is poor is more important than the fact that they're poor at some given moment in time. I believe that a just system concerns itself with making it possible for those who desire more wealth and are able to earn it to do so, no matter what their present level of wealth is. For the remaining handful of people that don't fit into that category (and don't suffer from a grave mental illness)? Hey, no one is stopping you from helping them.
- bubtubgub 11y ago
  > Mental illness is different because in many cases, the people in question are do not possess the faculties required to live normally, decently, or (in rare cases, peacefully) in society. Mental health care facilities are a thing. Medication is a thing. Of course mentally ill homeless people cannot pay for these things themselves. This is where decent humans have to come together and help. > In a sense, I think the reason someone is poor is more important than the fact that they're poor at some given moment in time. Of course, and one of the main reasons people are poor is because they were born into a poor family, or otherwise disenfranchised condition. Class mobility in the US is basically a myth, because the social welfare including everything from child subsidies, education, food, living, healthcare is quite terrible and getting worse. > I believe that a just system concerns itself with making it possible for those who desire more wealth and are able to earn it to do so And one of the main factors here is for people to have the ability to get a good education, get healthcare, stay away from crime and drugs, have a certain amount of social and financial security and stability, etc. All of these things is not something a person is born with, these things either come from a well-off family or from the society. Some people manage to break into the upper classes from the lower classes, but these are very few and are the exceptions, not the rule. Also, I don't really see how you can equate 'justness' of a system to it being able to allow those who want more wealth to get that wealth. That's basically saying 'a just system is where the greediest get the most.' - it's pretty ridiculous. A just system is where all humans have the same human rights and the same opportunities irregardless of greed. > Hey, no one is stopping you from helping them. This is so childish... I don't even.
  - maxharris 11y ago
    Class mobility in the US is basically a myth True, it is much lower when compared to the 19th century, when the economy was much freer (this is true despite the era's widespread racism and lower level of economic and technological development which manifested in longer hours, and poorer working conditions than those we enjoy today). it's pretty ridiculous Taking a different view than one you're accustomed to hearing, labeling it "greed" and calling it "pretty ridiculous" is not much of an argument. I'm advocating for, "You want a better life? Earn it. Don't lie, cheat, steal, because those aren't going to help you get ahead (and if you can't figure that out, people have the moral right to their own lives, which gives the government the power to stop you.) Rather than envying those with more, make your own! You'd be surprised how capable you are if you just try." What (besides rare case of a random and tragic accident) can stop people with that attitude? These days, it's high taxes, innovation-stifling regulations, and restrictions on and against immigrants.

maxharris 11y ago

Mental illness is different because in many cases, the people in question are do not possess the faculties required to live normally, decently, or (in rare cases, peacefully) in society. They often end up in jail. A proud person's only choice here is institutionalization of some sort. The alternative is the status quo: the able suffer injuries to their own rights, the mentally ill suffer indignities they had no hand in creating, and the able end up paying just as much to keep them in jail anyway. In a sense, I think the reason someone is poor is more important than the fact that they're poor at some given moment in time. I believe that a just system concerns itself with making it possible for those who desire more wealth and are able to earn it to do so, no matter what their present level of wealth is. For the remaining handful of people that don't fit into that category (and don't suffer from a grave mental illness)? Hey, no one is stopping you from helping them.

bubtubgub 11y ago
> Mental illness is different because in many cases, the people in question are do not possess the faculties required to live normally, decently, or (in rare cases, peacefully) in society. Mental health care facilities are a thing. Medication is a thing. Of course mentally ill homeless people cannot pay for these things themselves. This is where decent humans have to come together and help. > In a sense, I think the reason someone is poor is more important than the fact that they're poor at some given moment in time. Of course, and one of the main reasons people are poor is because they were born into a poor family, or otherwise disenfranchised condition. Class mobility in the US is basically a myth, because the social welfare including everything from child subsidies, education, food, living, healthcare is quite terrible and getting worse. > I believe that a just system concerns itself with making it possible for those who desire more wealth and are able to earn it to do so And one of the main factors here is for people to have the ability to get a good education, get healthcare, stay away from crime and drugs, have a certain amount of social and financial security and stability, etc. All of these things is not something a person is born with, these things either come from a well-off family or from the society. Some people manage to break into the upper classes from the lower classes, but these are very few and are the exceptions, not the rule. Also, I don't really see how you can equate 'justness' of a system to it being able to allow those who want more wealth to get that wealth. That's basically saying 'a just system is where the greediest get the most.' - it's pretty ridiculous. A just system is where all humans have the same human rights and the same opportunities irregardless of greed. > Hey, no one is stopping you from helping them. This is so childish... I don't even.
- maxharris 11y ago
  Class mobility in the US is basically a myth True, it is much lower when compared to the 19th century, when the economy was much freer (this is true despite the era's widespread racism and lower level of economic and technological development which manifested in longer hours, and poorer working conditions than those we enjoy today). it's pretty ridiculous Taking a different view than one you're accustomed to hearing, labeling it "greed" and calling it "pretty ridiculous" is not much of an argument. I'm advocating for, "You want a better life? Earn it. Don't lie, cheat, steal, because those aren't going to help you get ahead (and if you can't figure that out, people have the moral right to their own lives, which gives the government the power to stop you.) Rather than envying those with more, make your own! You'd be surprised how capable you are if you just try." What (besides rare case of a random and tragic accident) can stop people with that attitude? These days, it's high taxes, innovation-stifling regulations, and restrictions on and against immigrants.