4 ms·

You ask in another comment whether you are oblivious. Playfully, I respond "Yes, you are oblivious". Using "shibboleth" as a shibboleth is itself a shibbolet

by nkurz 11y ago

You ask in another comment whether you are oblivious. Playfully, I respond "Yes, you are oblivious". Using "shibboleth" as a shibboleth is itself a shibboleth. She's declaring her bona fides (gratuitous Latin is also a shibboleth, especially if highlighted with italics) as a scholar by demonstrating her ability to use an obscure term correctly, and is being gracious to her audience by assuming their comprehension. Switching to "booboo" is intentional, showing consciousness of register. My background is somewhat similar to hers, although without the parental guidance. Perhaps as a result, my acculturation was less successful. I think this is a brilliant article, and (having read and enjoyed many of your other comments on this site) I encourage you start from the assumption that the author is fully conscious of the tone of this piece.

kbenson 11y ago
> You ask in another comment whether you are oblivious. Playfully, I respond "Yes, you are oblivious". A totally valid response, I was asking honestly, not sarcastically. :) The truth is, I'm not exposed to southern accents very often outside of media. I've lived and worked an hour north of SF most my life, and I think I'm more likely to identify a British or Australian accent in the area than I am a southern one. Unless they are hiding their accent, which I guess is entirely possible considering this thread. > Switching to "booboo" is intentional, showing consciousness of register. ... I encourage you start from the assumption that the author is fully conscious of the tone of this piece. I assumed the author was completely aware of the tone, I just wasn't sure how to interpret it myself in the short amount I had read. > I think this is a brilliant article Well, with that endorsement, I'll put extra effort into finishing it then. Not that I stopped for reasons pertaining to the content or delivery, I just ran out of time and all too often interesting articles are never finished due to that (the number tabs I have open in an obviously unsuccessful attempt to work around this behavior actually make for a comical view). Oh, and thanks for the compliment, It's (usually) nice to be noticed. :) After you've been following discussions on HN a while, certain names start to stick out when you see them, and I've definitely noticed yours (for positive reasons!)
- nkurz 11y ago
  I've lived and worked an hour north of SF most my life As evidence of my incomplete assimilation, I happened to spend last weekend up your way (north of Lake Sonoma) doing carpentry and pig hunting at a relative's cabin. Culturally, as an Eastern-educated Wisconsinite who was born in the South, I sometimes think I fit in better in your area than down here in the Bay Area proper. the number tabs I have open in an obviously unsuccessful attempt to work around this behavior I'm familiar with that. When I said "this is a brilliant article", it means I had the article open in a tab for months with the intent of submitting to HN at some appropriate time, and closed it only when I switched browsers (Opera to Safari).
  - kbenson 11y ago
    > Culturally, as an Eastern-educated Wisconsinite who was born in the South, I sometimes think I fit in better in your area than down here in the Bay Area proper. My parents probably agree with your assessment of the area, as they both grew up in rural Wisconsin (Wabeno/Lakeview), and settled here close to forty years ago. > it means I had the article open in a tab for months with the intent of submitting to HN at some appropriate time I have the opposite problem, as I get a far larger proportion of my reading from HN than from external sources, and I've been thinking I need to fix that lately. I knew my tab-bookmark prooblem was really bad when I had two separate tabs for Fogus best things and stuff lists for separate years, and each tab was started when they were first submitted. :/ (of course, this example is mitigated by the fact that a list such as that is not something that can, nor should, be consumed quickly).
skrjabin 11y ago
The author is obviously self-aware and this is precisely what makes it frustrating. Nearly every point is obfuscated through ornamentation, or broken up into parenthetical statements like a jigsaw puzzle. The entire article could be summarized in a concise paragraph with minimal loss of meaning. It's just pretension.
- jdmichal 11y ago
  I find this comment jarring, because I had little-to-no issues reading the article. So I encourage you to instead read her language as a performance, and figure out what group she's performing in.
- kough 11y ago
  This writing style is itself a performance of Rationalist culture. Read anything by The Last Psychiatrist or Scott Alexander or Eliezer Yudkowsky for comparison.
  - mdpopescu 11y ago
    I actually double-checked to make sure I wasn't on Yudkowsky's site.
  - jholman 11y ago
    You think The Last Psychiatrist is performing Rationalist culture? I hadn't noticed such a relationship, and at a moment's consideration I still don't notice it, and if you really do think that, I'd appreciate any evidence you can point me to.
    - kough 11y ago
      I do think so; hard to prove if reading the content isn't argument enough. One fact is that TLP is the third link on the left-hand blog roll on SSC's website, so there's at least a one-way relationship. Anecdotally I remember reading something by Scott Alexander that mentioned that TLP was part of the LW community at one point, but I can't back this up with links.
  - 11y ago
50CNT 11y ago
Cognizant of your tone, it seems those twobuckn'fifty words are turning a perfectly clear statement into the written equivalent of caramel toffee. It's not terrible, but sticky to chew through. Ain't a college essay with a 500 word cap, spaces are cheap and plenty. Ploughing as many 7 syllable words as possible into a sentence makes an author seem...self-conscious about tone. Strunk & White says "Omit Needless Words". I've always taken that as "Omit Needless Ornament". Thrice nested sentences, v̶e̶r̶b̶i̶a̶g̶e̶ ̶o̶b̶s̶c̶u̶r̶a̶ o̶b̶s̶c̶u̶r̶e̶ ̶v̶o̶c̶a̶b̶u̶l̶a̶r̶y̶ big words, flowery language, et cetera.
- morgante 11y ago
  I presume this was intentional, but I found your first paragraph hard to read. I had to go through it twice to get the meaning of each sentence down. In contrast, I find the "ornamental" language of the essay itself to flow easily. It's all part of the register we're typically accustomed to. Shibboleth, for example, is instantly recognizable to me (though it always reminds me of The West Wing).

by nkurz 11y ago

kbenson 11y ago

> You ask in another comment whether you are oblivious. Playfully, I respond "Yes, you are oblivious". A totally valid response, I was asking honestly, not sarcastically. :) The truth is, I'm not exposed to southern accents very often outside of media. I've lived and worked an hour north of SF most my life, and I think I'm more likely to identify a British or Australian accent in the area than I am a southern one. Unless they are hiding their accent, which I guess is entirely possible considering this thread. > Switching to "booboo" is intentional, showing consciousness of register. ... I encourage you start from the assumption that the author is fully conscious of the tone of this piece. I assumed the author was completely aware of the tone, I just wasn't sure how to interpret it myself in the short amount I had read. > I think this is a brilliant article Well, with that endorsement, I'll put extra effort into finishing it then. Not that I stopped for reasons pertaining to the content or delivery, I just ran out of time and all too often interesting articles are never finished due to that (the number tabs I have open in an obviously unsuccessful attempt to work around this behavior actually make for a comical view). Oh, and thanks for the compliment, It's (usually) nice to be noticed. :) After you've been following discussions on HN a while, certain names start to stick out when you see them, and I've definitely noticed yours (for positive reasons!)

nkurz 11y ago
I've lived and worked an hour north of SF most my life As evidence of my incomplete assimilation, I happened to spend last weekend up your way (north of Lake Sonoma) doing carpentry and pig hunting at a relative's cabin. Culturally, as an Eastern-educated Wisconsinite who was born in the South, I sometimes think I fit in better in your area than down here in the Bay Area proper. the number tabs I have open in an obviously unsuccessful attempt to work around this behavior I'm familiar with that. When I said "this is a brilliant article", it means I had the article open in a tab for months with the intent of submitting to HN at some appropriate time, and closed it only when I switched browsers (Opera to Safari).
- kbenson 11y ago
  > Culturally, as an Eastern-educated Wisconsinite who was born in the South, I sometimes think I fit in better in your area than down here in the Bay Area proper. My parents probably agree with your assessment of the area, as they both grew up in rural Wisconsin (Wabeno/Lakeview), and settled here close to forty years ago. > it means I had the article open in a tab for months with the intent of submitting to HN at some appropriate time I have the opposite problem, as I get a far larger proportion of my reading from HN than from external sources, and I've been thinking I need to fix that lately. I knew my tab-bookmark prooblem was really bad when I had two separate tabs for Fogus best things and stuff lists for separate years, and each tab was started when they were first submitted. :/ (of course, this example is mitigated by the fact that a list such as that is not something that can, nor should, be consumed quickly).

skrjabin 11y ago

The author is obviously self-aware and this is precisely what makes it frustrating. Nearly every point is obfuscated through ornamentation, or broken up into parenthetical statements like a jigsaw puzzle. The entire article could be summarized in a concise paragraph with minimal loss of meaning. It's just pretension.

jdmichal 11y ago
I find this comment jarring, because I had little-to-no issues reading the article. So I encourage you to instead read her language as a performance, and figure out what group she's performing in.
kough 11y ago
This writing style is itself a performance of Rationalist culture. Read anything by The Last Psychiatrist or Scott Alexander or Eliezer Yudkowsky for comparison.
- mdpopescu 11y ago
  I actually double-checked to make sure I wasn't on Yudkowsky's site.
- jholman 11y ago
  You think The Last Psychiatrist is performing Rationalist culture? I hadn't noticed such a relationship, and at a moment's consideration I still don't notice it, and if you really do think that, I'd appreciate any evidence you can point me to.
  - kough 11y ago
    I do think so; hard to prove if reading the content isn't argument enough. One fact is that TLP is the third link on the left-hand blog roll on SSC's website, so there's at least a one-way relationship. Anecdotally I remember reading something by Scott Alexander that mentioned that TLP was part of the LW community at one point, but I can't back this up with links.
- 11y ago

50CNT 11y ago

Cognizant of your tone, it seems those twobuckn'fifty words are turning a perfectly clear statement into the written equivalent of caramel toffee. It's not terrible, but sticky to chew through. Ain't a college essay with a 500 word cap, spaces are cheap and plenty. Ploughing as many 7 syllable words as possible into a sentence makes an author seem...self-conscious about tone. Strunk & White says "Omit Needless Words". I've always taken that as "Omit Needless Ornament". Thrice nested sentences, v̶e̶r̶b̶i̶a̶g̶e̶ ̶o̶b̶s̶c̶u̶r̶a̶ o̶b̶s̶c̶u̶r̶e̶ ̶v̶o̶c̶a̶b̶u̶l̶a̶r̶y̶ big words, flowery language, et cetera.

morgante 11y ago
I presume this was intentional, but I found your first paragraph hard to read. I had to go through it twice to get the meaning of each sentence down. In contrast, I find the "ornamental" language of the essay itself to flow easily. It's all part of the register we're typically accustomed to. Shibboleth, for example, is instantly recognizable to me (though it always reminds me of The West Wing).