3 ms·

I'm pretty sure that wasn't disclosed as lots of dangerous things could be done in the wrong hands.

corndoge 11y ago
Right, so now we just have to wait until someone else with a Model S figures it out and actually posts code.
marssaxman 11y ago
Like... um.... what, exactly? People could take control of their own vehicles and exercise the privileges that ought to come with ownership? The ability to jailbreak a Tesla is the only thing that might make me interested in owning one.
- nxzero 11y ago
  Wonder given Elon's position on patents if they've even thought about open sourcing the software; guessing they have, but never know.
  - celticninja 11y ago
    His position on patents is that if you patent something you make it public and the Chinese steal it regardless of the patent. By not patenting something they keep it secret. He is not anti patent he just understands that some people DGAF about a US granted patent and will steal your ideas anyway. As such I can't imagine they have ever thought of open sourcing the software behind their vehicles.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- spullara 11y ago
  It seems like the new car that you just created should have to be checked out and approved as street legal. How do you know that the changes you have made still meet safety regulations and the like?
  - formerly_ta 11y ago
    There are lots of things you can do to make a car not street legal. And people have access to them. And it's their responsibility to make sure they only drive a street legal car on the street.
  - marssaxman 11y ago
    One could reasonably propose that things ought to work that way, but that is not, in fact, the way things have ever worked, at least not in the USA. People routinely make very substantial alterations to their cars and continue driving them on the street with no legal process involved. "Street legal" is not an exacting standard and no inspections are required for an altered vehicle (so far as I know, anyway) beyond whatever routine process your state requires as part of the registration process. (Here in Washington state, that's just an emissions test.) I used to be part of a 4x4 club; we routinely rebuilt our trucks' suspensions, changed out the gearing, replaced wheels and tires with bigger ones, installed power steering systems adapted from some other type of vehicle, swapped our engines or axles out for bigger, tougher ones, swapped out entire drivetrains - you name the component, somebody in the club probably modified or replaced it. We weren't even doing anything unusual by recreational offroading standards, much less hot-rodding standards. We weren't building tube frames, and most of us didn't modify our frames at all. Nobody had ripped off all the sheet metal on their truck and replaced it all with a molded fiberglass replica; none of us installed superchargers or nitrous injection or anything like that. I'd guess no more than half of us even knew how to weld. Modified cars are on the road all the time; you've seen thousands of them whether you realize it or not. If this were a big safety problem, there would have been a moral panic about it decades ago. Tweaking the software in a Tesla is completely insignificant by comparison. No, it doesn't need to be checked out and approved.
    - spullara 11y ago
      Tweaking the software in autopilot could cause it to kill you and anyone else on the road. For example, you might accidentally make it not return control to the driver when it can no longer navigate or cause it to accelerate out of control. It isn't clear to me that increasing horsepower or changing the wheels is as significant. There are a bunch of common modifications that are outright illegal like high/low-riding changes, emissions, lighting, etc. though it is on a state by state basis in the US. http://blogs.findlaw.com/law_and_life/2012/07/the-top-5-illegal-car-modifications.html http://blogs.findlaw.com/law_and_life/2012/07/the-top-5-ille...
- shiftpgdn 11y ago
  Teslas are exposed to the internet via the wlan/gsm connection built into the car. It would be very bad if this were exploited.
  - marssaxman 11y ago
    Given that it involves physical access to the car, and a fairly intensive degree of it from the looks of the photo series, how exactly would anyone but the car's owner or an authorized mechanic go about using such an exploit?
- Hemera- 11y ago
  I agree wholeheartedly, just as of now have decided not to release the procedure. I said elsewhere but Tesla knows of this and so far has chose to not change it. If it becomes a trend which every owner could easily do I have no doubt they would quickly change their minds. Barring that, there is enough information out there for a determined individual to accomplish this.

Right, so now we just have to wait until someone else with a Model S figures it out and actually posts code.

Like... um.... what, exactly? People could take control of their own vehicles and exercise the privileges that ought to come with ownership? The ability to jailbreak a Tesla is the only thing that might make me interested in owning one.

nxzero 11y ago
Wonder given Elon's position on patents if they've even thought about open sourcing the software; guessing they have, but never know.
- celticninja 11y ago
  His position on patents is that if you patent something you make it public and the Chinese steal it regardless of the patent. By not patenting something they keep it secret. He is not anti patent he just understands that some people DGAF about a US granted patent and will steal your ideas anyway. As such I can't imagine they have ever thought of open sourcing the software behind their vehicles.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
spullara 11y ago
It seems like the new car that you just created should have to be checked out and approved as street legal. How do you know that the changes you have made still meet safety regulations and the like?
- formerly_ta 11y ago
  There are lots of things you can do to make a car not street legal. And people have access to them. And it's their responsibility to make sure they only drive a street legal car on the street.
- marssaxman 11y ago
  One could reasonably propose that things ought to work that way, but that is not, in fact, the way things have ever worked, at least not in the USA. People routinely make very substantial alterations to their cars and continue driving them on the street with no legal process involved. "Street legal" is not an exacting standard and no inspections are required for an altered vehicle (so far as I know, anyway) beyond whatever routine process your state requires as part of the registration process. (Here in Washington state, that's just an emissions test.) I used to be part of a 4x4 club; we routinely rebuilt our trucks' suspensions, changed out the gearing, replaced wheels and tires with bigger ones, installed power steering systems adapted from some other type of vehicle, swapped our engines or axles out for bigger, tougher ones, swapped out entire drivetrains - you name the component, somebody in the club probably modified or replaced it. We weren't even doing anything unusual by recreational offroading standards, much less hot-rodding standards. We weren't building tube frames, and most of us didn't modify our frames at all. Nobody had ripped off all the sheet metal on their truck and replaced it all with a molded fiberglass replica; none of us installed superchargers or nitrous injection or anything like that. I'd guess no more than half of us even knew how to weld. Modified cars are on the road all the time; you've seen thousands of them whether you realize it or not. If this were a big safety problem, there would have been a moral panic about it decades ago. Tweaking the software in a Tesla is completely insignificant by comparison. No, it doesn't need to be checked out and approved.
  - spullara 11y ago
    Tweaking the software in autopilot could cause it to kill you and anyone else on the road. For example, you might accidentally make it not return control to the driver when it can no longer navigate or cause it to accelerate out of control. It isn't clear to me that increasing horsepower or changing the wheels is as significant. There are a bunch of common modifications that are outright illegal like high/low-riding changes, emissions, lighting, etc. though it is on a state by state basis in the US. http://blogs.findlaw.com/law_and_life/2012/07/the-top-5-illegal-car-modifications.html http://blogs.findlaw.com/law_and_life/2012/07/the-top-5-ille...
shiftpgdn 11y ago
Teslas are exposed to the internet via the wlan/gsm connection built into the car. It would be very bad if this were exploited.
- marssaxman 11y ago
  Given that it involves physical access to the car, and a fairly intensive degree of it from the looks of the photo series, how exactly would anyone but the car's owner or an authorized mechanic go about using such an exploit?
Hemera- 11y ago
I agree wholeheartedly, just as of now have decided not to release the procedure. I said elsewhere but Tesla knows of this and so far has chose to not change it. If it becomes a trend which every owner could easily do I have no doubt they would quickly change their minds. Barring that, there is enough information out there for a determined individual to accomplish this.