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The more I here about this story the scarier it sounds. It's something straight out of 1984 and a complete invasion of privacy. Given that the children were all

by adamt 17y ago

The more I here about this story the scarier it sounds. It's something straight out of 1984 and a complete invasion of privacy. Given that the children were all minors - spying on them secretly outside of school raises all sorts of moral and legal issues. Given that a student was reportedly disciplined based upon these spy photos, presumably the teaching staff (and not just one over-zealous & misguided IT bod) were fully aware of this. This is the kind of thing the western media perceives as happening in countries like China, not in America, the 'land of the free'

hga 17y ago
While you've got a point, things like being the 'land of the free' aren't self-enforcing. We are and will continue to be that because the people responsible for this will: Have their lives ruined. Be out a *lot* of money. Very possibly end up in prison. Whereas we've recently seen that the PRC's response to people being upset that shoddy school construction resulted in the injury or death of their child (singular, One Child Per Family...) in the recent earthquake is to throw them in jail (or the like). You're always going to have immoral people in a society who think they're above the law, the critical thing is what you do to correct them and to provide harsh object lessons for others who are tempted.
- emmett 17y ago
  The PRC is a bad example for that; they're also likely to execute you: http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/china-executes-corrupt-official/2007/07/10/1183833517978.html http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/china-executes-corrupt-offi... Nigeria or even Russia would probably be a better example; at least they're not famous for killing people for corruption. That said, your main point is completely correct: this is the system working.
  - hga 17y ago
    I don't know that they're likely to, I get the impression that that is more for show when things get too hot, too obvious. In this case it happened in conjunction with events like the FDA advising us to throw out any PRC made toothpaste. And his appeal was denied because "he was a 'great danger' to the country and its reputation" (http://english.sina.com/china/p/2010/0210/303963.html http://english.sina.com/china/p/2010/0210/303963.html). But you're right in part because they feel like they have to keep up appearances and they will upon occasion reach up high, something that hasn't been true in Russia for who knows how long. (Then again, we don't know if Zheng Xiaoyu's real crime was losing a political battle.) In this case I used the PRC as the counterexample because it was what the parent commentator used. Another good one would be the place that inspired 1984, where ever greater violations of civil liberties, due process and the rule of law as well as privacy are taking place without noticeable push back. I don't know what would be happening in the U.K. if some school there tried to pull off this sort of nearly literal "1984" (not quite, since the video monitors in Oceania were explicitly there to spy on you, you just didn't know when someone would be paying attention) ... but I wouldn't be sanguine.
    - starkfist 17y ago
      I don't know what would be happening in the U.K. if some school there tried to pull off this sort of nearly literal "1984" With all the video surveillance and things like ASBO laws in the UK, would a story like this even be considered news?
      - hga 17y ago
        One wonders, but I hope it would still be a stretch from Anti-Social Behaviour ("in a manner that caused or was likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress to one or more persons not of the same household as himself" (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1998/ukpga_19980037_en_2#pt1-ch1-pb1-l1g1 http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1998/ukpga_19980037_en_2#pt1... )) and cameras in public to a state required camera taking pictures of your disrobed daughter in her bedroom.
- CWuestefeld 17y ago
  I'm pretty sure the administrators thought they were behaving in the best interest of their students. But that's a sad commentary on the state of today's world. Even if they did have the best of intentions, I think that they should be absolutely ruined. Make the very idea of such intrusions so thoroughly toxic that no one, even the most conniving, dare attempt it for fear of the stakes involved. After all, turning America into the panopticon is the highest stakes around.

by adamt 17y ago

hga 17y ago

While you've got a point, things like being the 'land of the free' aren't self-enforcing. We are and will continue to be that because the people responsible for this will: Have their lives ruined. Be out a *lot* of money. Very possibly end up in prison. Whereas we've recently seen that the PRC's response to people being upset that shoddy school construction resulted in the injury or death of their child (singular, One Child Per Family...) in the recent earthquake is to throw them in jail (or the like). You're always going to have immoral people in a society who think they're above the law, the critical thing is what you do to correct them and to provide harsh object lessons for others who are tempted.

emmett 17y ago
The PRC is a bad example for that; they're also likely to execute you: http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/china-executes-corrupt-official/2007/07/10/1183833517978.html http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/china-executes-corrupt-offi... Nigeria or even Russia would probably be a better example; at least they're not famous for killing people for corruption. That said, your main point is completely correct: this is the system working.
- hga 17y ago
  I don't know that they're likely to, I get the impression that that is more for show when things get too hot, too obvious. In this case it happened in conjunction with events like the FDA advising us to throw out any PRC made toothpaste. And his appeal was denied because "he was a 'great danger' to the country and its reputation" (http://english.sina.com/china/p/2010/0210/303963.html http://english.sina.com/china/p/2010/0210/303963.html). But you're right in part because they feel like they have to keep up appearances and they will upon occasion reach up high, something that hasn't been true in Russia for who knows how long. (Then again, we don't know if Zheng Xiaoyu's real crime was losing a political battle.) In this case I used the PRC as the counterexample because it was what the parent commentator used. Another good one would be the place that inspired 1984, where ever greater violations of civil liberties, due process and the rule of law as well as privacy are taking place without noticeable push back. I don't know what would be happening in the U.K. if some school there tried to pull off this sort of nearly literal "1984" (not quite, since the video monitors in Oceania were explicitly there to spy on you, you just didn't know when someone would be paying attention) ... but I wouldn't be sanguine.
  - starkfist 17y ago
    I don't know what would be happening in the U.K. if some school there tried to pull off this sort of nearly literal "1984" With all the video surveillance and things like ASBO laws in the UK, would a story like this even be considered news?
    - hga 17y ago
      One wonders, but I hope it would still be a stretch from Anti-Social Behaviour ("in a manner that caused or was likely to cause harassment, alarm or distress to one or more persons not of the same household as himself" (http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1998/ukpga_19980037_en_2#pt1-ch1-pb1-l1g1 http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts1998/ukpga_19980037_en_2#pt1... )) and cameras in public to a state required camera taking pictures of your disrobed daughter in her bedroom.
CWuestefeld 17y ago
I'm pretty sure the administrators thought they were behaving in the best interest of their students. But that's a sad commentary on the state of today's world. Even if they did have the best of intentions, I think that they should be absolutely ruined. Make the very idea of such intrusions so thoroughly toxic that no one, even the most conniving, dare attempt it for fear of the stakes involved. After all, turning America into the panopticon is the highest stakes around.