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Again, this is demonstrably false. What's commonly meant by "dedicated hosting" is essentially the same service level you get from EC2 - they they care of the n

by latch 11y ago

Again, this is demonstrably false. What's commonly meant by "dedicated hosting" is essentially the same service level you get from EC2 - they they care of the network and hardware, you take care of the software (1). The cost here is 2x-4x lower. In another comment, I quoted E5-2620 v3 w/64GB for $400 which is exactly this type of setup. This is offered by a company that's been in business for longer than AWS has existed and who, in web hosting circles, is well respected. You could definitely go cheaper. You could definitely go to IBM and rackspace and pay as much as EC2, sure...but there are literally thousands of providers in the US, which have been in business for over a decade that'll beat EC2/Rackspace/Softlayer by a wide margin. Some that I've personally used: WebNX (LA), NetDepot (Atlanta), ReliableSite (NY), HiVelocity (Florida). I've also done it on the cheap with OVH (both Quebec and France) and Hetzner (Germany), as well as on the expensive side with Softlayer (you can negotiate softlayer down considerably even on a small order). (1) That's disservice to dedicated hosting, because the quality of the network is often better, and you won't get termination emails from your hosting provider or noisy neighbours the way like you do on EC2.

UK-AL 11y ago
Will those guys provide you with SQL Server cluster with at least 2 servers, Setup AlwaysOn, Setup failover clustering with Quorums, Optimal Disk Partition Alignment, DTC, setup subnets, ACLS to secure your cluster and lots of MSSQL Specific stuff I don't know about and then monitor it for you. Because that's what managed service is. And most ask a lot for this because of the specialists it requires. If you pay for RDS, Amazon does this for you, and it would already be well setup below the application level. They have guys monitoring it, and keeping it up. And they can do this cheap because of the benefits of scale across all their customers. If you just ask for machine than yes, that's going to be cheap. But your forgetting you need databases, Application delivery controllers, firewalls, VPN appliances. All of which may require niche vender knowledge to setup, and then they would charge a lot of consultancy fee's to design a solution for you. Amazon puts this stuff behind simple API's where you don't need to know all those vender specific skills.
- toomuchtodo 11y ago
  I don't mean to be rude, but Github, Stackoverflow, and Wikipedia all run their own physical environments. Its easy to demonstrate that the cost savings you indicate in AWS don't exist. AWS helps you prototype and iterate faster. It is not cheaper.
  - UK-AL 11y ago
    And I know a lots of companies that host on cloud, and made a cost saving after moving away from managed hosting because they were charging so much to look after it. Github, Stackoverflow, and Wikipedia probably have very good dedicated specialists who salaries only make sense when you operate on their scale.
    - toomuchtodo 11y ago
      > And I know a lots of companies that host on cloud, and made a cost saving after moving away from managed hosting. Can you provide a citation? Because AWS tools _are managed hosting_. They're just managed hosting without support (unless you're paying AWS for it on top of the service cost).
      - UK-AL 11y ago
        Well they tend to be smaller/medium size companies, because they don't have serious scale yet to hire specialists, but at the same time require reliable HA hosting. It can't just be some databases or web servers setup in a Adhoc fashion. A lot of these articles that compare cloud vs dedicated only compare some web server in data centre. They don't consider building a complete platform is a lot of work. You need to setup databases in highly available preformant fashion, backup solutions, off premise backups, ADC's(Netscalers for example), firewalls, subnets, Storage(SANS), ACLS, Site to site VPNS(or MPLS) etc which requires some knowledgeable people to setup. Companies that setup this for you, rightly charge quite a bit for it.
- iofj 11y ago
  This is almost a standard product with a lot of providers : http://www.postgresql.org/support/professional_hosting/northamerica/ http://www.postgresql.org/support/professional_hosting/north... > If you just ask for machine than yes, that's going to be cheap. But your forgetting you need databases, Application delivery controllers, firewalls, VPN appliances. All of ... What do vpn appliances have to do with database hosting ? I'm guessing you're an enterprise java developer ?

by latch 11y ago

UK-AL 11y ago

Will those guys provide you with SQL Server cluster with at least 2 servers, Setup AlwaysOn, Setup failover clustering with Quorums, Optimal Disk Partition Alignment, DTC, setup subnets, ACLS to secure your cluster and lots of MSSQL Specific stuff I don't know about and then monitor it for you. Because that's what managed service is. And most ask a lot for this because of the specialists it requires. If you pay for RDS, Amazon does this for you, and it would already be well setup below the application level. They have guys monitoring it, and keeping it up. And they can do this cheap because of the benefits of scale across all their customers. If you just ask for machine than yes, that's going to be cheap. But your forgetting you need databases, Application delivery controllers, firewalls, VPN appliances. All of which may require niche vender knowledge to setup, and then they would charge a lot of consultancy fee's to design a solution for you. Amazon puts this stuff behind simple API's where you don't need to know all those vender specific skills.

toomuchtodo 11y ago
I don't mean to be rude, but Github, Stackoverflow, and Wikipedia all run their own physical environments. Its easy to demonstrate that the cost savings you indicate in AWS don't exist. AWS helps you prototype and iterate faster. It is not cheaper.
- UK-AL 11y ago
  And I know a lots of companies that host on cloud, and made a cost saving after moving away from managed hosting because they were charging so much to look after it. Github, Stackoverflow, and Wikipedia probably have very good dedicated specialists who salaries only make sense when you operate on their scale.
  - toomuchtodo 11y ago
    > And I know a lots of companies that host on cloud, and made a cost saving after moving away from managed hosting. Can you provide a citation? Because AWS tools _are managed hosting_. They're just managed hosting without support (unless you're paying AWS for it on top of the service cost).
    - UK-AL 11y ago
      Well they tend to be smaller/medium size companies, because they don't have serious scale yet to hire specialists, but at the same time require reliable HA hosting. It can't just be some databases or web servers setup in a Adhoc fashion. A lot of these articles that compare cloud vs dedicated only compare some web server in data centre. They don't consider building a complete platform is a lot of work. You need to setup databases in highly available preformant fashion, backup solutions, off premise backups, ADC's(Netscalers for example), firewalls, subnets, Storage(SANS), ACLS, Site to site VPNS(or MPLS) etc which requires some knowledgeable people to setup. Companies that setup this for you, rightly charge quite a bit for it.
iofj 11y ago
This is almost a standard product with a lot of providers : http://www.postgresql.org/support/professional_hosting/northamerica/ http://www.postgresql.org/support/professional_hosting/north... > If you just ask for machine than yes, that's going to be cheap. But your forgetting you need databases, Application delivery controllers, firewalls, VPN appliances. All of ... What do vpn appliances have to do with database hosting ? I'm guessing you're an enterprise java developer ?