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"The quintessential American quality is the belief that every person has the right to control their own destiny." So you don't think you have this right? I be

"The quintessential American quality is the belief that every person has the right to control their own destiny." So you don't think you have this right? I believe you have the right of opportunity, but not of outcome. I learned what this guy learned pretty early on: If you are an employee (developer or not), you will be paid to do things you are against and people less intelligent and experienced than you will be making decisions for you at some point...and you can't do anything about it. This is the sole reason I started my own company. I was sick of being forced to go down a path of failure..after every attempt to do otherwise was ignored. After our failure, management never wanted to look bad, so they almost always picked someone to blame. Sometimes it was me or my team, sometimes someone else. Speaking up about it meant you weren't a 'team player' and you would probably be on the chopping block during the next round of layoffs. I was able to survive most layoffs because I learned how to play politics, but at the cost of never feeling satisfied with my job. I've had my own company for 5 years and I don't regret a thing. It was the best decision I ever made. "I just have to say this: So typically american" Really? I was thinking it was typically Chinese. My wife's family is from China and they pretty much all try to one up/compare each other in terms of assets, money, or jobs. "If you want to control your destiny, you'd better learn how to make money." This message is pretty truthful. The more you rely on someone to support you (the government, friends, family, job), the less control you have over your life. Money gives you the ultimate power and freedom to do what you want. Regardless of your culture, this doesn't change. If you have more more money, you will always have more options/freedom.

exelius 11y ago
> So you don't think you have this right? I believe you have the right of opportunity, but not of outcome. I do think I have this right; as an American it is the #1 thing that makes me an American. It's why we ignore the rules we don't like. It's why we lust for power and for money, lest some other person beat us to the punch and have power over us. And while no rational person thinks they can control every factor that goes into their own outcome, we at least want to have some influence. If you're an engineer and your company goes belly-up because your marketing guy was a moron and you didn't have the power to make him listen to your ideas... that's the position many Americans strive to avoid. > Really? I was thinking it was typically Chinese. My wife's family is from China and they pretty much all try to one up/compare each other in terms of assets, money, or jobs. I feel that this no longer an American trait. 30 years ago, yeah, but with the whole backlash against the 1% and the hipster movement where bankers making $500k/yr dress like homeless musicians... it's not as cool to flaunt money anymore (unless you're a musician; then it's just part of the whole consumer culture thing because you're selling a life of luxury to poor people...) My household income last year was over seven figures, but I live in a house worth less than half of that and drive a 5 year old base model Subaru. Once money buys you autonomy, it's not really worth much (and that's a modern American perspective that's backed up by research). > Regardless of your culture, this doesn't change. If you have more more money, you will always have more options/freedom. I absolutely agree. But the single most important value that America was founded on is self-determination: the idea that each person is in control of their own destiny. Outside forces may get in your way, but it's your obligation to figure out how to get around them. American business culture is the same way: if you want to limit your chances of being fired through no fault of your own, you should probably get more power so you're higher up on the decision making chain.
jkyle 11y ago
> I believe you have the right of opportunity, but not of outcome. I may be assuming too much, but in most don't really believe this. For example, I'd wager you firmly believe you have the right to a safe and secure society such that you are relatively confident you will no be randomly murdered in your sleep with no consequences for the murderer. This is exactly a right to the outcome of a minimum level of security in your person and property. If you do hold this belief then you believe in right of outcome in society. Though you may not agree with others what outcomes we should be guaranteed.
- brbsix 11y ago
  You have a right to not have violence initiated against you (e.g. to not be murdered in your sleep). In order to keep this right, you just can't initiate force against someone else. Do you have a right to a "safe and secure society"? I'm not really sure precisely what that is or how it is achieved, but that sounds an awful lot like a privilege. For example, you most certainly do not have the right to be guarded in your sleep by armed guards. Nor do we all possess the right to be guarded in our sleep by armed guards.
  - jkyle 11y ago
    > You have a right to not have violence initiated against you This is a right of outcome. The outcome of not having violence committed against your person or property. Rights of outcome vs rights of opportunity are a false dichotomy. All rights are a right for some specific outcome and are considered violated when that outcome does not occur.
dinkumthinkum 11y ago
Shhh ... You are supposed to buy into the deep anti-American bias and pretend that only Americans want money and property or some such nonsense. :)

exelius 11y ago

> So you don't think you have this right? I believe you have the right of opportunity, but not of outcome. I do think I have this right; as an American it is the #1 thing that makes me an American. It's why we ignore the rules we don't like. It's why we lust for power and for money, lest some other person beat us to the punch and have power over us. And while no rational person thinks they can control every factor that goes into their own outcome, we at least want to have some influence. If you're an engineer and your company goes belly-up because your marketing guy was a moron and you didn't have the power to make him listen to your ideas... that's the position many Americans strive to avoid. > Really? I was thinking it was typically Chinese. My wife's family is from China and they pretty much all try to one up/compare each other in terms of assets, money, or jobs. I feel that this no longer an American trait. 30 years ago, yeah, but with the whole backlash against the 1% and the hipster movement where bankers making $500k/yr dress like homeless musicians... it's not as cool to flaunt money anymore (unless you're a musician; then it's just part of the whole consumer culture thing because you're selling a life of luxury to poor people...) My household income last year was over seven figures, but I live in a house worth less than half of that and drive a 5 year old base model Subaru. Once money buys you autonomy, it's not really worth much (and that's a modern American perspective that's backed up by research). > Regardless of your culture, this doesn't change. If you have more more money, you will always have more options/freedom. I absolutely agree. But the single most important value that America was founded on is self-determination: the idea that each person is in control of their own destiny. Outside forces may get in your way, but it's your obligation to figure out how to get around them. American business culture is the same way: if you want to limit your chances of being fired through no fault of your own, you should probably get more power so you're higher up on the decision making chain.

jkyle 11y ago

> I believe you have the right of opportunity, but not of outcome. I may be assuming too much, but in most don't really believe this. For example, I'd wager you firmly believe you have the right to a safe and secure society such that you are relatively confident you will no be randomly murdered in your sleep with no consequences for the murderer. This is exactly a right to the outcome of a minimum level of security in your person and property. If you do hold this belief then you believe in right of outcome in society. Though you may not agree with others what outcomes we should be guaranteed.

brbsix 11y ago
You have a right to not have violence initiated against you (e.g. to not be murdered in your sleep). In order to keep this right, you just can't initiate force against someone else. Do you have a right to a "safe and secure society"? I'm not really sure precisely what that is or how it is achieved, but that sounds an awful lot like a privilege. For example, you most certainly do not have the right to be guarded in your sleep by armed guards. Nor do we all possess the right to be guarded in our sleep by armed guards.
- jkyle 11y ago
  > You have a right to not have violence initiated against you This is a right of outcome. The outcome of not having violence committed against your person or property. Rights of outcome vs rights of opportunity are a false dichotomy. All rights are a right for some specific outcome and are considered violated when that outcome does not occur.

dinkumthinkum 11y ago

Shhh ... You are supposed to buy into the deep anti-American bias and pretend that only Americans want money and property or some such nonsense. :)