4 ms·

while your points are true, its kind of the whole point of the article is 'economic' (and of course race) are first-order approximations of 'social' class but t

by apalmer 11y ago

while your points are true, its kind of the whole point of the article is 'economic' (and of course race) are first-order approximations of 'social' class but they are NOT the same thing, only approximately overlapping. Pretty much the whole point of the article.

zeveb 11y ago
Which is why it's so odd that she doesn't want to discuss race, which like economic class is merely a first-order approximation of social class. In general, of course, I find the idea of announcing 'derailing' topics to be ridiculous, meaning something like, 'here are my thoughts on a topic: you are free to talk about your thoughts in these related areas, but not those related areas, because I don't want you to, and will consider you rude.' It feels childish to me.
- maxerickson 11y ago
  So why not elucidate on the themes of the essay, explaining how they play out racially? This will nicely illustrate that it is a mistake to announce derailing topics. All you've done is complain about it (i.e., derail).
  - soundwave106 11y ago
    Personally, I think racial issues are too often far closer to the social class issues mentioned in the article, than economic ones... or even genuine full blown racial hatred. A lot of times, it is more mannerisms -- how someone speaks, how someone dresses -- that seem to be a huge amount of what is described as "racist". So many times, when you hear racism of any kind, it's more complaints about mannerisms. Stuff like: That black person, dressing up in "gangster" (read: hip-hop fashionable) clothing, playing "gangster" music (also read: general hip-hop), well, to the racist, he must be a "thug". Regardless of how rich or poor that person is, regardless of the actual lack of "thuggery", etc. Put a similar black person in a business suit, adjust the mannerisms to be more "professional" for a lack of a better term, and the person becomes more acceptable to the "professional" type classes. (However, he might be an "Uncle Tom" to some of his black peers, and he probably won't impress the "blue collar" social class either.) You can go on from there. I do think there are general "I hate everyone who is xyz race" people out there as well, but I almost would be willing to say that a lot of racism is more the sort of social class issues identified in the article. The race is almost more of a side note as a way people over-generalize, kind of like the "Southern accent = hicks" over-generalization mentioned above.

by apalmer 11y ago

zeveb 11y ago

Which is why it's so odd that she doesn't want to discuss race, which like economic class is merely a first-order approximation of social class. In general, of course, I find the idea of announcing 'derailing' topics to be ridiculous, meaning something like, 'here are my thoughts on a topic: you are free to talk about your thoughts in these related areas, but not those related areas, because I don't want you to, and will consider you rude.' It feels childish to me.

maxerickson 11y ago
So why not elucidate on the themes of the essay, explaining how they play out racially? This will nicely illustrate that it is a mistake to announce derailing topics. All you've done is complain about it (i.e., derail).
- soundwave106 11y ago
  Personally, I think racial issues are too often far closer to the social class issues mentioned in the article, than economic ones... or even genuine full blown racial hatred. A lot of times, it is more mannerisms -- how someone speaks, how someone dresses -- that seem to be a huge amount of what is described as "racist". So many times, when you hear racism of any kind, it's more complaints about mannerisms. Stuff like: That black person, dressing up in "gangster" (read: hip-hop fashionable) clothing, playing "gangster" music (also read: general hip-hop), well, to the racist, he must be a "thug". Regardless of how rich or poor that person is, regardless of the actual lack of "thuggery", etc. Put a similar black person in a business suit, adjust the mannerisms to be more "professional" for a lack of a better term, and the person becomes more acceptable to the "professional" type classes. (However, he might be an "Uncle Tom" to some of his black peers, and he probably won't impress the "blue collar" social class either.) You can go on from there. I do think there are general "I hate everyone who is xyz race" people out there as well, but I almost would be willing to say that a lot of racism is more the sort of social class issues identified in the article. The race is almost more of a side note as a way people over-generalize, kind of like the "Southern accent = hicks" over-generalization mentioned above.