4 ms·

I agree that materialistic thinking and living certainly contributes to lack of savings/retirement assets. But so does simply having a family, especially as a

by ulkesh 11y ago

I agree that materialistic thinking and living certainly contributes to lack of savings/retirement assets. But so does simply having a family, especially as a single parent or when the spouse doesn't work. You might say "well, the spouse can go work," but it's rarely that simple considering the costs of child care and how it may weigh on the spouse's potential salary. Then factor in if the spouse can even get a higher paying job to offset said costs. Then add in the trouble with the spouse even obtaining a job due to not having a bachelor degree. Everything feeds into everything else. No one situation can easily have the same resolution as another situation. I agree that there is no excuse to not trying. But there may be reasons for not succeeding.

quaunaut 11y ago
In America at least, the median salary for a Programmer is more than enough that with properly managed funds, you can have a spouse who doesn't work and still live quite well. Remember- the median income here is $52k. I'm in Boise, ID, one of the cheapest cost of living areas in America, and our junior developers start above that.
- cushychicken 11y ago
  My first job was working for Micron in Boise, ID, and I lived like royalty on their college-hire engineer salary. Loved the town, wasn't into the work. I'd move back to Boise in a heartbeat.
  - quaunaut 11y ago
    It's really great, and I've found a wonderful job here with the best coworkers I've ever had. Also get to experiment with cool technologies quite often.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- wdmeldon 11y ago
  I live in a place with a slightly higher COL and make about that with no benefits. I also have about 4 years experience. Some people just make shitty career choices or don't get lucky/unlucky.
  - quaunaut 11y ago
    Then keep looking? The market favors the developer right now.
    - wdmeldon 11y ago
      Oh I do. But I hear this a lot more than I see it, especially in the Midwest without a degree.
      - quaunaut 11y ago
        You're describing how my career started! Hahahah. Yeah, it can definitely be difficult, but the jobs are definitely out there. The easiest ways to find a job you don't hate that pays what it should is paying attention to the right technologies. Sadly, the percentage of crap jobs that are using older technologies like PHP, Java, and C# is much higher than those working with Ruby, JS, or Golang. This isn't to say it's impossible of course- but it can help narrow things down. So I'd say, try to find a technology you like most in your spare time, and look in that area. The second thing, is give remote work a shot. Sites like weworkremotely.com almost guarantee better conditions, because often the companies hiring are both better-informed and located somewhere that a 10-20k salary bump is barely noticeable, and even if it was, they know who butters their bread.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- devonkim 11y ago
  I make nearly 3x the median income of my area but my expenses are far from being in a state of luxury living. Housing is one of the highest in the state here due to price inflation by retirees (cash buyers drive prices up which is counterintuitive to me) as well as the sheer lack of housing inventory let alone ones affordable to the service worker caste. Then comes my spouse not working in a lucrative field while medical expenses keep accruing for various maladies that years ago would have been as alley percentage of income. Furthermore, my parents are aging and will likely need support in time or capital as well as my spouse's which can preclude me from taking opportunities that require a lot of continuous time dedication or are intolerant of random, non-negotiable interruptions. Constantly moving for my household to try to find living situations that can balance both our careers is extremely difficult (not so difficult if both are fine wine metro areas but then living costs go up once again quickly). But beyond that, if you can't practice appropriate fiscal frugality to meet your long term goals (really common I've found) you're looking at increased expenses on luxuries like island vacations, eating out frequently, discretionary travel in general, and so forth. It's really hard to explain to those that are typical American consumers how you could earn $180k+ / year but are trying to live like you earn $60k.
mordocai 11y ago
My spouse doesn't work. I'm nearly 25 and on/above target on my 401k savings and am slowly gaining money in regular savings accounts too. I made some bad decisions with debt a few years ago or I'd be even farther ahead. I live in Missouri though, which has pretty low cost of living.
- cookiecaper 11y ago
  I appreciate your intention, but I don't think you can really lecture anyone on retirement savings when you're in your 20s. I'm in my 20s myself and wouldn't do it. Check back in 30 years -- maybe you'll have gotten lucky and not had any major financial drains, or maybe you won't've. People in my family had hundreds of ks saved up for retirement and have lost it all in their 50s. Now they're in their 60s and have no foreseeable path to retirement. Unexpected events happen.
  - kdamken 11y ago
    Just out of curiosity, what happened to them? Besides significant medical or legal expenses, it's hard for me to picture.
    - mordocai 11y ago
      My parents also lost all of their funds in their 50s due to the stock market crash, but they were getting close to retirement and shouldn't have had their funds in high risk.

by ulkesh 11y ago

quaunaut 11y ago

In America at least, the median salary for a Programmer is more than enough that with properly managed funds, you can have a spouse who doesn't work and still live quite well. Remember- the median income here is $52k. I'm in Boise, ID, one of the cheapest cost of living areas in America, and our junior developers start above that.

cushychicken 11y ago
My first job was working for Micron in Boise, ID, and I lived like royalty on their college-hire engineer salary. Loved the town, wasn't into the work. I'd move back to Boise in a heartbeat.
- quaunaut 11y ago
  It's really great, and I've found a wonderful job here with the best coworkers I've ever had. Also get to experiment with cool technologies quite often.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
wdmeldon 11y ago
I live in a place with a slightly higher COL and make about that with no benefits. I also have about 4 years experience. Some people just make shitty career choices or don't get lucky/unlucky.
- quaunaut 11y ago
  Then keep looking? The market favors the developer right now.
  - wdmeldon 11y ago
    Oh I do. But I hear this a lot more than I see it, especially in the Midwest without a degree.
    - quaunaut 11y ago
      You're describing how my career started! Hahahah. Yeah, it can definitely be difficult, but the jobs are definitely out there. The easiest ways to find a job you don't hate that pays what it should is paying attention to the right technologies. Sadly, the percentage of crap jobs that are using older technologies like PHP, Java, and C# is much higher than those working with Ruby, JS, or Golang. This isn't to say it's impossible of course- but it can help narrow things down. So I'd say, try to find a technology you like most in your spare time, and look in that area. The second thing, is give remote work a shot. Sites like weworkremotely.com almost guarantee better conditions, because often the companies hiring are both better-informed and located somewhere that a 10-20k salary bump is barely noticeable, and even if it was, they know who butters their bread.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
devonkim 11y ago
I make nearly 3x the median income of my area but my expenses are far from being in a state of luxury living. Housing is one of the highest in the state here due to price inflation by retirees (cash buyers drive prices up which is counterintuitive to me) as well as the sheer lack of housing inventory let alone ones affordable to the service worker caste. Then comes my spouse not working in a lucrative field while medical expenses keep accruing for various maladies that years ago would have been as alley percentage of income. Furthermore, my parents are aging and will likely need support in time or capital as well as my spouse's which can preclude me from taking opportunities that require a lot of continuous time dedication or are intolerant of random, non-negotiable interruptions. Constantly moving for my household to try to find living situations that can balance both our careers is extremely difficult (not so difficult if both are fine wine metro areas but then living costs go up once again quickly). But beyond that, if you can't practice appropriate fiscal frugality to meet your long term goals (really common I've found) you're looking at increased expenses on luxuries like island vacations, eating out frequently, discretionary travel in general, and so forth. It's really hard to explain to those that are typical American consumers how you could earn $180k+ / year but are trying to live like you earn $60k.

mordocai 11y ago

My spouse doesn't work. I'm nearly 25 and on/above target on my 401k savings and am slowly gaining money in regular savings accounts too. I made some bad decisions with debt a few years ago or I'd be even farther ahead. I live in Missouri though, which has pretty low cost of living.

cookiecaper 11y ago
I appreciate your intention, but I don't think you can really lecture anyone on retirement savings when you're in your 20s. I'm in my 20s myself and wouldn't do it. Check back in 30 years -- maybe you'll have gotten lucky and not had any major financial drains, or maybe you won't've. People in my family had hundreds of ks saved up for retirement and have lost it all in their 50s. Now they're in their 60s and have no foreseeable path to retirement. Unexpected events happen.
- kdamken 11y ago
  Just out of curiosity, what happened to them? Besides significant medical or legal expenses, it's hard for me to picture.
  - mordocai 11y ago
    My parents also lost all of their funds in their 50s due to the stock market crash, but they were getting close to retirement and shouldn't have had their funds in high risk.