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Im of the belief that technical people and managers should really be at the same level financially and otherwise quite honestly. That's really the only way I ca
by thegayngler 11y ago
Im of the belief that technical people and managers should really be at the same level financially and otherwise quite honestly. That's really the only way I can see the whole manager/programmer thing can work out for the benefit of everyone. When you have non-technical managers or technical-managers who's skills are out of date making decisions on behalf of the programmers you end up with a mess. That is often the case. The people who you hired as experts are the ones the management should be listening to... not necessarily managers who really only function as a way to grease the communication channels.
I know at a lot of places I've worked managers only function is to keep programmers out of meetings so they can do the real work. Management is really a bad title. I think the mgmt structure needs flattening and the current system pits management against programmers... I think this has to change....as well as the whole management track vs technical track. The technical people are what you need to build the products. No amount of managers is going to get you a product without a programmer to build the products.
Companies are so obsessed with hierarchy that they lose themselves in the politics of it all. I think companies and people need to embrace the idea that programmers and communication people are at the same level in terms of financial benefits and in terms of treatment at a company and that technical experts should be making decisions not necessarily managers.
- jt2190 11y agoIronically, the only way to fix this is for conscientious programmers to go into management, where they will have the power to actually change things.
- nunez 11y agoThe issue though is that many (most?) developers/engineers avoid management like the plague since it involves having to actually deal with people
- lerpa 11y agoNot just dealing with people but it's a waste, why become sometimes at best a mediocre manager when you are already a decent developer.
- thegayngler 11y agoYou can't be all things to all people. I realize businesses want the perceived efficiency but it's a trade-off not a productivity gain. You it's hard to be great a two jobs at the same time. Programming and Management require work "at work" and outside of work.
- jt2190 11y agoMy apologies if I wasn't clear. By "go into management", I meant that the programmer reduces their programming activity from "active participant" to "observer". They use their intimate knowledge of programming to make well-informed decisions for those that they manage. I did not mean to imply that the programmer does two full-time jobs.
- Aleman360 11y agoEh, dealing with people is harder than dealing with code. Code does what it's told, has no emotions, is debuggable, doesn't need motivation, etc.
- thegayngler 11y agoIf people you are "managing" are the product and not building the product then I would say maybe you have a point. Additionally, management doesn't bear the brunt of the fallout most of the time when they are bad managers or unable to make good technical decisions. So of course programmers given these factors should be paid the same as management.