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It's pretty strange to go from casually dismissing Tesla's 280-mile range as being too short in your last post, to calling the Volt's 40-mile range "a big deal

by chc 11y ago

It's pretty strange to go from casually dismissing Tesla's 280-mile range as being too short in your last post, to calling the Volt's 40-mile range "a big deal changer" here. It's only in 100% electric mode the "vast, vast majority of the time" if you hardly drive at all. A 40-mile range is positively anemic, not even enough for my average commute. That's much closer to the Prius' 20-mile range than it is to the Nissan Leaf's 80-mile range, which in turn is drastically shorter than the Tesla Model S's 280-mile range.

dragontamer 11y ago
The Leaf doesn't have an alternative source of energy. Run out of the 80-mile range on the Leaf, and you're stranded. Call up a tow-truck because you're stuck. The Tesla Model S 280 miles requires a 30-minute stop when you go cross country. In contrast, the Volt has a 400-mile electric generator on top of a 40-mile pure electric battery.
- chc 11y ago
  Sure, and my friend's Mustang can also go a pretty long distance on gas, as can every other gas-burning car. That's my point — the Volt should not be grouped in with cars like the Model S or the Bolt, because it is not the same thing — heck, that's why Chevy is making the Bolt when they already have the Volt, because they are different. If you like the Volt, that's fine, but you're burning gasoline just like an ICE car if you ever drive more than 40 miles.
  - dragontamer 11y ago
    And is there anything wrong with a small battery that's enough (or nearly enough) for the daily commute, and a gas engine to take you where you can't go? As stated: the other "electric-mode / gas assist" vehicle is the Prius Prime, which only has 20-mile range. So the Volt is the highest-capacity pure-electric mode vehicle with an on board generator. From the "Compare with Model 3", these are both electric vehicles that cost somewhere between $30,000 and $40,000 that overall have more than 300-mile range. One uses the common gas station to get there (40-mile all-electric + 400 mile gas generator), the other uses much larger battery packs and is therefore stuck on the supercharger network. I mean, at the end of the day, they're basically cars. So... yeah. Cars should be compared against each other. There's a ton of options, and the Model 3 is finally at a price range where it can be reasonably compared against these options. So lets compare. Amirite?
    - chc 11y ago
      > And is there anything wrong with a small battery that's enough (or nearly enough) for the daily commute, and a gas engine to take you where you can't go? Wrong? No. But it's not the same thing as a large battery that can do both. You could drive a Tesla from the Mexican border to Disneyland and back without needing to charge. That is not bad range. The Volt could do that too, but it would spend about 80% of the trip burning gas. If you care about that, it's worse. If you don't care, then I guess you could say they're equivalent, but I don't quite understand why you're bothering with EVs in that case. Basically, I don't have anything against people driving Volts. I don't drive an EV either — I have an old Prius. I am just annoyed by the rhetorical games people are playing here to draw false equivalences that favor of their favorite car. When it supports the Volt, you'll compare cars in hyper-specific categories like "highest-capacity pure-electric mode vehicle with an on board generator." But when I suggest that there's a substantive difference between a pure electric car and a car whose rated range comes 90% from gasoline and that somebody might care about that difference, that's unreasonable because "at the end of the day, they're basically cars." Nowhere in this thread have I criticized anyone for owning a Volt. I've just said there's a difference between a car with a 16 kWh battery and a car with a 90 kWh battery, and equating them with each other makes about as much sense as equating them with a Mustang (which costs about the same and can also drive about the same distance between fill-ups).

by chc 11y ago

dragontamer 11y ago

The Leaf doesn't have an alternative source of energy. Run out of the 80-mile range on the Leaf, and you're stranded. Call up a tow-truck because you're stuck. The Tesla Model S 280 miles requires a 30-minute stop when you go cross country. In contrast, the Volt has a 400-mile electric generator on top of a 40-mile pure electric battery.

chc 11y ago
Sure, and my friend's Mustang can also go a pretty long distance on gas, as can every other gas-burning car. That's my point — the Volt should not be grouped in with cars like the Model S or the Bolt, because it is not the same thing — heck, that's why Chevy is making the Bolt when they already have the Volt, because they are different. If you like the Volt, that's fine, but you're burning gasoline just like an ICE car if you ever drive more than 40 miles.
- dragontamer 11y ago
  And is there anything wrong with a small battery that's enough (or nearly enough) for the daily commute, and a gas engine to take you where you can't go? As stated: the other "electric-mode / gas assist" vehicle is the Prius Prime, which only has 20-mile range. So the Volt is the highest-capacity pure-electric mode vehicle with an on board generator. From the "Compare with Model 3", these are both electric vehicles that cost somewhere between $30,000 and $40,000 that overall have more than 300-mile range. One uses the common gas station to get there (40-mile all-electric + 400 mile gas generator), the other uses much larger battery packs and is therefore stuck on the supercharger network. I mean, at the end of the day, they're basically cars. So... yeah. Cars should be compared against each other. There's a ton of options, and the Model 3 is finally at a price range where it can be reasonably compared against these options. So lets compare. Amirite?
  - chc 11y ago
    > And is there anything wrong with a small battery that's enough (or nearly enough) for the daily commute, and a gas engine to take you where you can't go? Wrong? No. But it's not the same thing as a large battery that can do both. You could drive a Tesla from the Mexican border to Disneyland and back without needing to charge. That is not bad range. The Volt could do that too, but it would spend about 80% of the trip burning gas. If you care about that, it's worse. If you don't care, then I guess you could say they're equivalent, but I don't quite understand why you're bothering with EVs in that case. Basically, I don't have anything against people driving Volts. I don't drive an EV either — I have an old Prius. I am just annoyed by the rhetorical games people are playing here to draw false equivalences that favor of their favorite car. When it supports the Volt, you'll compare cars in hyper-specific categories like "highest-capacity pure-electric mode vehicle with an on board generator." But when I suggest that there's a substantive difference between a pure electric car and a car whose rated range comes 90% from gasoline and that somebody might care about that difference, that's unreasonable because "at the end of the day, they're basically cars." Nowhere in this thread have I criticized anyone for owning a Volt. I've just said there's a difference between a car with a 16 kWh battery and a car with a 90 kWh battery, and equating them with each other makes about as much sense as equating them with a Mustang (which costs about the same and can also drive about the same distance between fill-ups).