7 ms·

Leaving the iPhone

20 points by epi0Bauqu 17y ago

msacks 17y ago
I hear that the Nexus One has a lack of Python support. You would think it would. Anyone know why this is?
- Tichy 17y ago
  Don't know about it, but not sure why there would be lack of Python support. I suppose for standard apps they would have to run on a Java VM, so only Jython would be possible. Don't know about the state of Jython... I assume if you root the phone, you can also run native apps, so why shouldn't Python work?
  - ajross 17y ago
    It works fine. Python (outside of the admittedly limited scripting SDK) is not a first-class API for Android. But it was running on the G1 within weeks of release (as was most of debian, FWIW) and there are certainly no barriers to using it. But the supported API is Java-based, and that legitimately annoys some people even if it pleases others. Google isn't banning python, certainly, but neither are they pushing it. No different than any other phone, I guess.
- theBobMcCormick 17y ago
  Python is one of the languages supported by the Android Scripting Environment: http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/ http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/ I believe ASE is using CPython running as native code, with some kind of bridge into the Dalvik VM. I'm not sure what the status if JPython on Android is, but my understanding is that for many JVM languages it's non-trivial to port to Android, since many of them are expecting to be able to JIT to JVM bytecodes. This is problematic since Android doesn't use JVM bytecodes, it uses Dalvik bytecodes.
aaronbrethorst 17y ago
Google employee praises new Google product. Film at 11. Jeff LaMarche, a prominent iPhone developer and author of a couple iPhone programming books, wrote about this from the opposite side: switching from an iPhone to the Nexus One. I think his take is far more interesting: http://iphonedevelopment.blogspot.com/2010/02/nexus-one-from-iphone-developer.html http://iphonedevelopment.blogspot.com/2010/02/nexus-one-from...
- there 17y ago
  i'm having a hard time getting through this guy's review since there is so much bias and incorrect information. One real issue I have with all of the Android phones is the four hardware buttons they all have: back, menu, home, and search. Three of the four shouldn't be there. Coming from Google, I can understand the emphasis on search, but it simply doesn't belong in a hardware button. I don't need to search while I'm playing a game, for example. Likewise, the menu button isn't applicable in all situations, nor is the back button. Of the four, only the home button really needs to be a hardware button, and it's not a coincidence that Apple made that exact design choice. most android software is designed with these 4 buttons in mind, and i use all 4 of them very frequently. the search button is not restricted to searching the web or anything, and many applications have some implementation of searching within them. the back and menu buttons are required in almost every application since there are no on-screen buttons like most iphone applications have (which look different from app to app). When you hit the home button, the previous application keeps running, which means it keeps eating memory, keeps using processor cycles, and keeps eating battery. oh, you mean just like every mac os application that, when closed by clicking the "x" button, stays running unless you go through its menu and quit? To truly quit most applications requires a multi-step navigation that is neither intuitive nor well-documented. many have a quit function in their menu, or just hitting the back button at its main screen usually quits it. i can't speak for every 3rd party application. The ability to have more than one GUI application at a time on a device with such a small screen isn't as important as some make it out to be, since you can't actually interact with more than one a time. on my mac i usually have to command+tab to work with more than one application at a time. it's no different on android. holding down the home button brings up a list of running applications that looks just like command+tab on a mac, and allows you to quickly jump between two applications. on the iphone, doing that (which would require going to the home screen between each jump) would restart each app every time, losing your context. In the early days, I was a big proponent of having Apple add the ability to run multiple apps to the iPhone OS, but I've come to change my mind on that. I think most people don't need it and Android's implementation only confirms it. ok, then most won't use it. that's no reason not to implement it. what percentage of iphone owners use copy-and-paste of text, or holding down home and power to take a screenshot? even if users don't want to keep switching between apps, allowing background functionality is essential for using things like pandora to play music, or a location-tracking application to keep updating your status in the background. even if you just have to switch into an app to look at a phone number, or look at a map, not having to quit those other apps is very useful. The day of my flight home from the U.K., I set alarms on both devices (I'm paranoid bout missing flights). It took me quite literally three to four times as long to configure and enable the alarms on the Nexus One as it did on the iPhone. Add that extra time by the number of tasks you do on your phone in a given day, and it can add up to a considerable amount of time. and this is surprising why? you're used to how it works on an iphone and aren't used to how it works on android. it would be no different if you were used to windows and switched to a mac. once you get used to the new method, you'll do it quicker than the previous one.
nickpp 17y ago
Pretty much like a Nokia employee raving about the N900. Can you say biased?
jsz0 17y ago
"I should be allowed to run the programs I want on my own computer." Except wifi tethering? Contrary to popular memes Google imposes a number of restrictions on the Android Market: http://www.android.com/us/developer-content-policy.html http://www.android.com/us/developer-content-policy.html
- Tichy 17y ago
  Maybe, but other than the iPhone with the App Store, on Android you are not tied to the Android Market. I think for tethering you still need to root the phone, but that is because of security restrictions for common apps. They usually can't change the routing table or something (I am not an expert on this). I think rooting is also not frowned upon on Android.
- theBobMcCormick 17y ago
  I don't know about wifi tethering, but USB and Bluetooth tethering are both supported by PDANet (http://www.junefabrics.com/android/index.php http://www.junefabrics.com/android/index.php). The iPhone version of PdaNet requires a jailbroken iPhone. The Android version is in the Android Market and works directly on any stock, unmodified Android phone. BTW.. Another difference between the iPhone and Android platforms. If an app is not in the iPhone apps store, there is literally no way for a user to install it on a non-jailbroken iPhone. With Android, it only requires checking one checkbox in the Android settings to allow you to install non-market apps on an Android phone. No rooting, jail-breaking, etc. required.
- jsz0 17y ago
  No doubt Android is more open but I do think if someone really wants to advocate open platforms there are better choices. Not just due to the Android Market but also closed source drivers & middle-ware. Slow developer updates due to delayed source/SDK releases, etc. I own an Android phone and quite like it but if Apple is a 1 out of 5 for openness & transparency then Android is probably a 3. I'm all about the 1 or the 5. Anything in the middle just gets the worst of both worlds and none of the benefits.
rimantas 17y ago
and the iPhone is simpler for a non-tech-savvy person to understand. These remarks are starting to get me. This is like saying that one foot high hurdle is easier for non athlete to jump over than three-feet high. And it is backwards. One foot hurdle is easier for the most to jump over when three-feet high one may have more demanding requirements on your fitness level.
- wmeredith 17y ago
  It's a backhanded compliment, or spin. The real meaning of that phrase is, "and the iPhone is simpler to understand." But he doesn't want to say it like that, so he marginalizes the statements potential backers by implying that they're non-tech savvy if the find the iPhone easier to use.
ashishbharthi 17y ago
I am leaving iPhone. Reason: I can write code in Java and load it on my phone without paying money to anybody. I can not afford to pay $100 to Apple every year just to load apps on my phone written by me.
- FreeRadical 17y ago
  It's $100 plus the cost of a mac to write iPhone apps.
  - notauser 17y ago
    In my mind there's a big difference between costs caused by things that would be hard for you to do (build and support a reliable cross-compiling Obj-C development environment on Windows) and costs caused by things that are easy for you to not do (SDK charges). The former I'll overlook even if they are two and a half times as much as the latter. ($500 second hand mac mini every two years vs $100/yr.)
afterburner 17y ago
Little mention of gaming; how's the Android app market on that front? The iPhone is getting popular DS ports. And they're even significantly cheaper than the originals. I'm not the type that cares to bother with more than one portable device, so the iPhone being a gaming device that is popular with big developers is quite the plus.
trezor 17y ago
I see other people here have raised the issue of what source this is coming from. Let me raise another one. Ultimately though, what matters the most to me is control. I have a simple rule of thumb, which is that I don’t put data somewhere that I can’t get it back. That’s the reason that I didn’t buy songs in iTunes, purchase ebooks for the Amazon Kindle, or really log into Facebook at all. It’s also the reason that I recently switched my computer from Microsoft Windows to Ubuntu Linux. Not to make this into an OS flamewar, but is he implying that just because Windows is closed source you do not have control over your data on the Windows platform? That Microsoft prevents you or apps from doing things or prevents you from removing things once you are done? That seems like a long shot.
wedesoft 17y ago
I won’t be able to get to 0% sugar ..., but I’m trying to stop eating sugar, ... I guess we have to be worried if we don't hear from him any more.

Leaving the iPhone

20 points by epi0Bauqu 17y ago

msacks 17y ago

I hear that the Nexus One has a lack of Python support. You would think it would. Anyone know why this is?

Tichy 17y ago
Don't know about it, but not sure why there would be lack of Python support. I suppose for standard apps they would have to run on a Java VM, so only Jython would be possible. Don't know about the state of Jython... I assume if you root the phone, you can also run native apps, so why shouldn't Python work?
- ajross 17y ago
  It works fine. Python (outside of the admittedly limited scripting SDK) is not a first-class API for Android. But it was running on the G1 within weeks of release (as was most of debian, FWIW) and there are certainly no barriers to using it. But the supported API is Java-based, and that legitimately annoys some people even if it pleases others. Google isn't banning python, certainly, but neither are they pushing it. No different than any other phone, I guess.
theBobMcCormick 17y ago
Python is one of the languages supported by the Android Scripting Environment: http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/ http://code.google.com/p/android-scripting/ I believe ASE is using CPython running as native code, with some kind of bridge into the Dalvik VM. I'm not sure what the status if JPython on Android is, but my understanding is that for many JVM languages it's non-trivial to port to Android, since many of them are expecting to be able to JIT to JVM bytecodes. This is problematic since Android doesn't use JVM bytecodes, it uses Dalvik bytecodes.

aaronbrethorst 17y ago

Google employee praises new Google product. Film at 11. Jeff LaMarche, a prominent iPhone developer and author of a couple iPhone programming books, wrote about this from the opposite side: switching from an iPhone to the Nexus One. I think his take is far more interesting: http://iphonedevelopment.blogspot.com/2010/02/nexus-one-from-iphone-developer.html http://iphonedevelopment.blogspot.com/2010/02/nexus-one-from...

there 17y ago
i'm having a hard time getting through this guy's review since there is so much bias and incorrect information. One real issue I have with all of the Android phones is the four hardware buttons they all have: back, menu, home, and search. Three of the four shouldn't be there. Coming from Google, I can understand the emphasis on search, but it simply doesn't belong in a hardware button. I don't need to search while I'm playing a game, for example. Likewise, the menu button isn't applicable in all situations, nor is the back button. Of the four, only the home button really needs to be a hardware button, and it's not a coincidence that Apple made that exact design choice. most android software is designed with these 4 buttons in mind, and i use all 4 of them very frequently. the search button is not restricted to searching the web or anything, and many applications have some implementation of searching within them. the back and menu buttons are required in almost every application since there are no on-screen buttons like most iphone applications have (which look different from app to app). When you hit the home button, the previous application keeps running, which means it keeps eating memory, keeps using processor cycles, and keeps eating battery. oh, you mean just like every mac os application that, when closed by clicking the "x" button, stays running unless you go through its menu and quit? To truly quit most applications requires a multi-step navigation that is neither intuitive nor well-documented. many have a quit function in their menu, or just hitting the back button at its main screen usually quits it. i can't speak for every 3rd party application. The ability to have more than one GUI application at a time on a device with such a small screen isn't as important as some make it out to be, since you can't actually interact with more than one a time. on my mac i usually have to command+tab to work with more than one application at a time. it's no different on android. holding down the home button brings up a list of running applications that looks just like command+tab on a mac, and allows you to quickly jump between two applications. on the iphone, doing that (which would require going to the home screen between each jump) would restart each app every time, losing your context. In the early days, I was a big proponent of having Apple add the ability to run multiple apps to the iPhone OS, but I've come to change my mind on that. I think most people don't need it and Android's implementation only confirms it. ok, then most won't use it. that's no reason not to implement it. what percentage of iphone owners use copy-and-paste of text, or holding down home and power to take a screenshot? even if users don't want to keep switching between apps, allowing background functionality is essential for using things like pandora to play music, or a location-tracking application to keep updating your status in the background. even if you just have to switch into an app to look at a phone number, or look at a map, not having to quit those other apps is very useful. The day of my flight home from the U.K., I set alarms on both devices (I'm paranoid bout missing flights). It took me quite literally three to four times as long to configure and enable the alarms on the Nexus One as it did on the iPhone. Add that extra time by the number of tasks you do on your phone in a given day, and it can add up to a considerable amount of time. and this is surprising why? you're used to how it works on an iphone and aren't used to how it works on android. it would be no different if you were used to windows and switched to a mac. once you get used to the new method, you'll do it quicker than the previous one.

nickpp 17y ago

Pretty much like a Nokia employee raving about the N900. Can you say biased?

jsz0 17y ago

"I should be allowed to run the programs I want on my own computer." Except wifi tethering? Contrary to popular memes Google imposes a number of restrictions on the Android Market: http://www.android.com/us/developer-content-policy.html http://www.android.com/us/developer-content-policy.html

Tichy 17y ago
Maybe, but other than the iPhone with the App Store, on Android you are not tied to the Android Market. I think for tethering you still need to root the phone, but that is because of security restrictions for common apps. They usually can't change the routing table or something (I am not an expert on this). I think rooting is also not frowned upon on Android.
theBobMcCormick 17y ago
I don't know about wifi tethering, but USB and Bluetooth tethering are both supported by PDANet (http://www.junefabrics.com/android/index.php http://www.junefabrics.com/android/index.php). The iPhone version of PdaNet requires a jailbroken iPhone. The Android version is in the Android Market and works directly on any stock, unmodified Android phone. BTW.. Another difference between the iPhone and Android platforms. If an app is not in the iPhone apps store, there is literally no way for a user to install it on a non-jailbroken iPhone. With Android, it only requires checking one checkbox in the Android settings to allow you to install non-market apps on an Android phone. No rooting, jail-breaking, etc. required.
jsz0 17y ago
No doubt Android is more open but I do think if someone really wants to advocate open platforms there are better choices. Not just due to the Android Market but also closed source drivers & middle-ware. Slow developer updates due to delayed source/SDK releases, etc. I own an Android phone and quite like it but if Apple is a 1 out of 5 for openness & transparency then Android is probably a 3. I'm all about the 1 or the 5. Anything in the middle just gets the worst of both worlds and none of the benefits.

rimantas 17y ago

and the iPhone is simpler for a non-tech-savvy person to understand. These remarks are starting to get me. This is like saying that one foot high hurdle is easier for non athlete to jump over than three-feet high. And it is backwards. One foot hurdle is easier for the most to jump over when three-feet high one may have more demanding requirements on your fitness level.

wmeredith 17y ago
It's a backhanded compliment, or spin. The real meaning of that phrase is, "and the iPhone is simpler to understand." But he doesn't want to say it like that, so he marginalizes the statements potential backers by implying that they're non-tech savvy if the find the iPhone easier to use.

ashishbharthi 17y ago

I am leaving iPhone. Reason: I can write code in Java and load it on my phone without paying money to anybody. I can not afford to pay $100 to Apple every year just to load apps on my phone written by me.

FreeRadical 17y ago
It's $100 plus the cost of a mac to write iPhone apps.
- notauser 17y ago
  In my mind there's a big difference between costs caused by things that would be hard for you to do (build and support a reliable cross-compiling Obj-C development environment on Windows) and costs caused by things that are easy for you to not do (SDK charges). The former I'll overlook even if they are two and a half times as much as the latter. ($500 second hand mac mini every two years vs $100/yr.)

afterburner 17y ago

Little mention of gaming; how's the Android app market on that front? The iPhone is getting popular DS ports. And they're even significantly cheaper than the originals. I'm not the type that cares to bother with more than one portable device, so the iPhone being a gaming device that is popular with big developers is quite the plus.

trezor 17y ago

I see other people here have raised the issue of what source this is coming from. Let me raise another one. Ultimately though, what matters the most to me is control. I have a simple rule of thumb, which is that I don’t put data somewhere that I can’t get it back. That’s the reason that I didn’t buy songs in iTunes, purchase ebooks for the Amazon Kindle, or really log into Facebook at all. It’s also the reason that I recently switched my computer from Microsoft Windows to Ubuntu Linux. Not to make this into an OS flamewar, but is he implying that just because Windows is closed source you do not have control over your data on the Windows platform? That Microsoft prevents you or apps from doing things or prevents you from removing things once you are done? That seems like a long shot.

wedesoft 17y ago

I won’t be able to get to 0% sugar ..., but I’m trying to stop eating sugar, ... I guess we have to be worried if we don't hear from him any more.