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I own the highest customer satisfaction Auto GM makes Chevy Volt. The instant torque and a very practical AER, and they do it for 33K (without tax credit) for a

by sremani 11y ago

I own the highest customer satisfaction Auto GM makes Chevy Volt. The instant torque and a very practical AER, and they do it for 33K (without tax credit) for a car available right now. I have 2014 Volt am extremely happy, and do recommend the 2017 Volt which is a much better version retaining its original identity. But TSLA is the darling of the press, rightfully or other wise. But at a Pound for Pound level, Gen2 Volt is an excellent choice. Unfortunately now those 250K people who reserved a Model 3 could be driving a EV right now and making an impact instead of waiting for 3 more years. One thing is sure, Cars are not like Phones, you see People with Phones but you see People in the Cars, so once there is a bit of saturation of Model 3 on west coast, people will look around and "discover" Bolt EV or who knows may be Volt.

ryanmarsh 11y ago
When the S ships do you suppose you would still pay 33k for a Volt?
- dragontamer 11y ago
  Considering that you can fill up the Volt with gasoline for long-term trips, that's a major plus for me. You get the battery for daily usage, and the electric generator for long trips. That's a lot more practical than waiting 30 minutes every ~200 miles on the supercharger network. GM has utterly solved the "range anxiety" problem entirely, with only a 40-mile electric battery.
  - chc 11y ago
    You could just as well say the Ford Mustang solves the range anxiety problem by relying on gas. Making a gas-powered vehicle isn't solving range anxiety, because the range anxiety problem relates to electric vehicles. The Volt is a hybrid, like the Prius. Hybrids never had range anxiety associated with them.
    - dragontamer 11y ago
      The Volt is a hybrid that is in 100% electric mode for the vast, vast majority of the time. There's a big difference between an electric-assist Prius and an electric-first plus Gasoline Generator Volt. The Prius is always burning gasoline, while the Volt only starts burning gas when it runs low on charge. There's a newer model Prius (ie: Prius Prime) that has 20-miles of pure electric range, but that's not even enough to get me from home to work and back. In practice, I'd have to keep the Prius in gasoline / hybrid mode even for a daily commute. In contrast, the Volt's 40-mile pure electric range is a big deal changer. Again, the Volt is a pure electric vehicle with a generator. The Prius is a hybrid engine (and the Prius Prime is a hybrid engine that can shut off the gasoline feed, but is still a hybrid engine nonetheless). I'd say the standard Prius is closer to the Malibu Hybrid, or other hybrids. But the plug-in pure electric mode of the Volt (and the recent Prius Prime) almost demands a new category.
      - chc 11y ago
        It's pretty strange to go from casually dismissing Tesla's 280-mile range as being too short in your last post, to calling the Volt's 40-mile range "a big deal changer" here. It's only in 100% electric mode the "vast, vast majority of the time" if you hardly drive at all. A 40-mile range is positively anemic, not even enough for my average commute. That's much closer to the Prius' 20-mile range than it is to the Nissan Leaf's 80-mile range, which in turn is drastically shorter than the Tesla Model S's 280-mile range.
        dragontamer 11y ago
        The Leaf doesn't have an alternative source of energy. Run out of the 80-mile range on the Leaf, and you're stranded. Call up a tow-truck because you're stuck. The Tesla Model S 280 miles requires a 30-minute stop when you go cross country. In contrast, the Volt has a 400-mile electric generator on top of a 40-mile pure electric battery.
        chc 11y ago
        Sure, and my friend's Mustang can also go a pretty long distance on gas, as can every other gas-burning car. That's my point — the Volt should not be grouped in with cars like the Model S or the Bolt, because it is not the same thing — heck, that's why Chevy is making the Bolt when they already have the Volt, because they are different. If you like the Volt, that's fine, but you're burning gasoline just like an ICE car if you ever drive more than 40 miles.
  - ryanmarsh 11y ago
    Great point. I hadn't considered the utility for road trips. This is a thorn in the side of EV's and will stay that way for a while.
- sremani 11y ago
  Bought my 2014 Volt for 25K with credits and rebate, and I would certainly buy a Volt in 2019 for comparable net payment, given than Volt improved its AER from 34 to 53. I like comparing the Volt to A10-warthog and Model S to F-22. I have to see Model 3 and test drive before passing judgement, I hope it is not F-35.
chc 11y ago
The Volt isn't really an EV, it's a hybrid. The Volt battery's estimated range is less than my daily commute, so I'd end up using a mix of battery and gas, just like my Prius does.
- brightball 11y ago
  Not in the traditional hybrid sense though. It's electric until the battery runs out and then uses a gas generator to create electricity. The generator is really just a range extender which is why they generally call it an Extended Range Electric Vehicle.
  - dublinben 11y ago
    We used to call those plug-in hybrids. An all-electric range of <40 miles is a joke, especially when an 80-mile Nissan Leaf costs 50% less.
    - brightball 11y ago
      It's less than 40 miles because most people drive 35 or less in a day. Then its range at 37mpg is about 280 between fill ups. I probably put gas in every 3-4 months when I had mine. At one point when I was driving the engine came on and ran simply for maintenance because it hadn't been used for so long. The only time I ever used gas was if I needed to drive out of state or across the state for holidays with the family. I could have bought a Leaf to go 80 miles...and then stop for the day.
      - dublinben 11y ago
        The difference in cost will more than pay for a rental car a couple times a year. You sound like an SUV owner who pays for more vehicle than they need 99% of the time, because they might need to drive on a dirt track some time.
        chc 11y ago
pbreit 11y ago
That's baloney. There's very little overlap between Tesla & Volt wannabe-owners.
- sremani 11y ago
  I have to disagree, I have evaluated the option of throwing my hat in the Model 3 ring, but its not in my DNA to buy a Car without test drive and given that I follow green car news pretty closely, I know too well that the market in 2019 and 2020 is going to be exciting with more choices both in PHEV and BEV world. Audi, BMW, Volvo, Mistu, Honda etc. many traditional automakers are racing to the market.
  - pbreit 11y ago
    Like I said...
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
brightball 11y ago
I leased a Volt for 3 years and 100% agree. That car was EXCELLENT and I still miss it. My father in law bought one after driving mine and hasn't stopped grinning. Flip it into "sport" mode and you'll get a speeding ticket. Such a great car. Unless you can afford a dedicated "commute only with no need to take on long trips" vehicle, I do not understand the appeal of fully electrics aside from status symbols.
- NickM 11y ago
  > Unless you can afford a dedicated "commute only with no need to take on long trips" vehicle, I do not understand the appeal of fully electrics aside from status symbols. Compared to a plug-in hybrid like the Volt, you have: more interior space, less maintenance, cheaper per-mile cost, convenience of not having to stop at gas stations, quieter, safer, etc. Sure, the Volt is a great car, and there are plenty of people I would recommend it to. But EVs are certainly not just "status symbols"; for some people they are legitimately better cars. Speaking from experience, the Supercharger network really does make road trips a non-issue as well. I'd honestly rather stop at a Supercharger station and get a free charge while I relax and eat lunch for 20 minutes than find a smelly, expensive gas station and stand outside pumping fuel.
  - dragontamer 11y ago
    Lets take a look: https://www.teslamotors.com/findus#/bounds/49.38,-66.94,25.82,-124.39?search=supercharger https://www.teslamotors.com/findus#/bounds/49.38,-66.94,25.8... I count TWO Superchargers in all of South Carolina, and SEVEN Superchargers in all of North Carolina. That's... pretty awful selection. Seriously? I'm not buying a vehicle to pretend to be an elitist and superior over my fellow citizens and neighbors. The fact of the matter is, being forced to stop at extremely limited locations to act high-and-mighty over the "poor gas users" (who are really the typical American's who can't afford a $30k+ vehicle so get off your damn high horse) is the biggest brand of elitism I've seen this week. There's nothing wrong with stopping at gas stations. They're common, they are convenient, they're cheap and they're close to where the action is. If you're happy to sit on a high-horse and pretend that TWO locations in some states is sufficient for a good long-driving experience (or even if Tesla DOUBLES the amount to FOUR locations by 2020)... suit yourself. But this sounds like an utterly awful road-trip experience in my opinion.
TheMakeA 11y ago
> Unfortunately now those 250K people who reserved a Model 3 could be driving a EV right now and making an impact instead of waiting for 3 more years. This is a false dichotomy. As an anecdote, I started a 3 year lease on an EV two weeks before the Model 3 was announced and still put in a reservation. Who cares if I can get a Volt for 33k right now? It still burns dinosaurs and has a terrible electric range. Tesla is the press "darling" because it's doing something that the other manufactures aren't: Good looking, All Electric, High Range, Affordable Price. These are things people clearly want. Every other vehicle sacrifices at least one of those.
- dragontamer 11y ago
  Tesla sacrifices classic sustainability, the do-it-yourself attitude, and "openness" of their platform. http://syonyk.blogspot.com/2016/03/is-tesla-building-throwaway-cars.html http://syonyk.blogspot.com/2016/03/is-tesla-building-throwaw... I do realize that the Silicon Valley types don't care about this issue, with iPhones behind walled gardens and all that jazz (or at least, SV doesn't seem to care about it anymore... what ever happened to the vision of open source and true ownership?)... but I know plenty of people who are still interested in vehicle with open standards. Or hell, just a vehicle that can be taken from a junkyard and then repaired in a garage. You're not allowed to take a Tesla from a junkyard and salvage it, not unless you take it to a dealership and have it "reactivated" by Tesla. https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1305093/tesla-salvage-release.pdf https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1305...
NDizzle 11y ago
One interesting thing to watch will be the resale value of the Bolts. If you haven't looked lately, look up the price of a 2014 Volt with up to 40,000 miles on it. You can get one for around $15,000 USD. If after 2 years you can get a Bolt for ~half MSRP, like you can a Volt, I'm not sure how I can resist a deal like that.

by sremani 11y ago

ryanmarsh 11y ago

When the S ships do you suppose you would still pay 33k for a Volt?

dragontamer 11y ago
Considering that you can fill up the Volt with gasoline for long-term trips, that's a major plus for me. You get the battery for daily usage, and the electric generator for long trips. That's a lot more practical than waiting 30 minutes every ~200 miles on the supercharger network. GM has utterly solved the "range anxiety" problem entirely, with only a 40-mile electric battery.
- chc 11y ago
  You could just as well say the Ford Mustang solves the range anxiety problem by relying on gas. Making a gas-powered vehicle isn't solving range anxiety, because the range anxiety problem relates to electric vehicles. The Volt is a hybrid, like the Prius. Hybrids never had range anxiety associated with them.
  - dragontamer 11y ago
    The Volt is a hybrid that is in 100% electric mode for the vast, vast majority of the time. There's a big difference between an electric-assist Prius and an electric-first plus Gasoline Generator Volt. The Prius is always burning gasoline, while the Volt only starts burning gas when it runs low on charge. There's a newer model Prius (ie: Prius Prime) that has 20-miles of pure electric range, but that's not even enough to get me from home to work and back. In practice, I'd have to keep the Prius in gasoline / hybrid mode even for a daily commute. In contrast, the Volt's 40-mile pure electric range is a big deal changer. Again, the Volt is a pure electric vehicle with a generator. The Prius is a hybrid engine (and the Prius Prime is a hybrid engine that can shut off the gasoline feed, but is still a hybrid engine nonetheless). I'd say the standard Prius is closer to the Malibu Hybrid, or other hybrids. But the plug-in pure electric mode of the Volt (and the recent Prius Prime) almost demands a new category.
    - chc 11y ago
      It's pretty strange to go from casually dismissing Tesla's 280-mile range as being too short in your last post, to calling the Volt's 40-mile range "a big deal changer" here. It's only in 100% electric mode the "vast, vast majority of the time" if you hardly drive at all. A 40-mile range is positively anemic, not even enough for my average commute. That's much closer to the Prius' 20-mile range than it is to the Nissan Leaf's 80-mile range, which in turn is drastically shorter than the Tesla Model S's 280-mile range.
      - dragontamer 11y ago
        The Leaf doesn't have an alternative source of energy. Run out of the 80-mile range on the Leaf, and you're stranded. Call up a tow-truck because you're stuck. The Tesla Model S 280 miles requires a 30-minute stop when you go cross country. In contrast, the Volt has a 400-mile electric generator on top of a 40-mile pure electric battery.
        chc 11y ago
        Sure, and my friend's Mustang can also go a pretty long distance on gas, as can every other gas-burning car. That's my point — the Volt should not be grouped in with cars like the Model S or the Bolt, because it is not the same thing — heck, that's why Chevy is making the Bolt when they already have the Volt, because they are different. If you like the Volt, that's fine, but you're burning gasoline just like an ICE car if you ever drive more than 40 miles.
- ryanmarsh 11y ago
  Great point. I hadn't considered the utility for road trips. This is a thorn in the side of EV's and will stay that way for a while.
sremani 11y ago
Bought my 2014 Volt for 25K with credits and rebate, and I would certainly buy a Volt in 2019 for comparable net payment, given than Volt improved its AER from 34 to 53. I like comparing the Volt to A10-warthog and Model S to F-22. I have to see Model 3 and test drive before passing judgement, I hope it is not F-35.

chc 11y ago

The Volt isn't really an EV, it's a hybrid. The Volt battery's estimated range is less than my daily commute, so I'd end up using a mix of battery and gas, just like my Prius does.

brightball 11y ago
Not in the traditional hybrid sense though. It's electric until the battery runs out and then uses a gas generator to create electricity. The generator is really just a range extender which is why they generally call it an Extended Range Electric Vehicle.
- dublinben 11y ago
  We used to call those plug-in hybrids. An all-electric range of <40 miles is a joke, especially when an 80-mile Nissan Leaf costs 50% less.
  - brightball 11y ago
    It's less than 40 miles because most people drive 35 or less in a day. Then its range at 37mpg is about 280 between fill ups. I probably put gas in every 3-4 months when I had mine. At one point when I was driving the engine came on and ran simply for maintenance because it hadn't been used for so long. The only time I ever used gas was if I needed to drive out of state or across the state for holidays with the family. I could have bought a Leaf to go 80 miles...and then stop for the day.
    - dublinben 11y ago
      The difference in cost will more than pay for a rental car a couple times a year. You sound like an SUV owner who pays for more vehicle than they need 99% of the time, because they might need to drive on a dirt track some time.
      - chc 11y ago

pbreit 11y ago

That's baloney. There's very little overlap between Tesla & Volt wannabe-owners.

sremani 11y ago
I have to disagree, I have evaluated the option of throwing my hat in the Model 3 ring, but its not in my DNA to buy a Car without test drive and given that I follow green car news pretty closely, I know too well that the market in 2019 and 2020 is going to be exciting with more choices both in PHEV and BEV world. Audi, BMW, Volvo, Mistu, Honda etc. many traditional automakers are racing to the market.
- pbreit 11y ago
  Like I said...
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]

brightball 11y ago

I leased a Volt for 3 years and 100% agree. That car was EXCELLENT and I still miss it. My father in law bought one after driving mine and hasn't stopped grinning. Flip it into "sport" mode and you'll get a speeding ticket. Such a great car. Unless you can afford a dedicated "commute only with no need to take on long trips" vehicle, I do not understand the appeal of fully electrics aside from status symbols.

NickM 11y ago
> Unless you can afford a dedicated "commute only with no need to take on long trips" vehicle, I do not understand the appeal of fully electrics aside from status symbols. Compared to a plug-in hybrid like the Volt, you have: more interior space, less maintenance, cheaper per-mile cost, convenience of not having to stop at gas stations, quieter, safer, etc. Sure, the Volt is a great car, and there are plenty of people I would recommend it to. But EVs are certainly not just "status symbols"; for some people they are legitimately better cars. Speaking from experience, the Supercharger network really does make road trips a non-issue as well. I'd honestly rather stop at a Supercharger station and get a free charge while I relax and eat lunch for 20 minutes than find a smelly, expensive gas station and stand outside pumping fuel.
- dragontamer 11y ago
  Lets take a look: https://www.teslamotors.com/findus#/bounds/49.38,-66.94,25.82,-124.39?search=supercharger https://www.teslamotors.com/findus#/bounds/49.38,-66.94,25.8... I count TWO Superchargers in all of South Carolina, and SEVEN Superchargers in all of North Carolina. That's... pretty awful selection. Seriously? I'm not buying a vehicle to pretend to be an elitist and superior over my fellow citizens and neighbors. The fact of the matter is, being forced to stop at extremely limited locations to act high-and-mighty over the "poor gas users" (who are really the typical American's who can't afford a $30k+ vehicle so get off your damn high horse) is the biggest brand of elitism I've seen this week. There's nothing wrong with stopping at gas stations. They're common, they are convenient, they're cheap and they're close to where the action is. If you're happy to sit on a high-horse and pretend that TWO locations in some states is sufficient for a good long-driving experience (or even if Tesla DOUBLES the amount to FOUR locations by 2020)... suit yourself. But this sounds like an utterly awful road-trip experience in my opinion.

TheMakeA 11y ago

> Unfortunately now those 250K people who reserved a Model 3 could be driving a EV right now and making an impact instead of waiting for 3 more years. This is a false dichotomy. As an anecdote, I started a 3 year lease on an EV two weeks before the Model 3 was announced and still put in a reservation. Who cares if I can get a Volt for 33k right now? It still burns dinosaurs and has a terrible electric range. Tesla is the press "darling" because it's doing something that the other manufactures aren't: Good looking, All Electric, High Range, Affordable Price. These are things people clearly want. Every other vehicle sacrifices at least one of those.

dragontamer 11y ago
Tesla sacrifices classic sustainability, the do-it-yourself attitude, and "openness" of their platform. http://syonyk.blogspot.com/2016/03/is-tesla-building-throwaway-cars.html http://syonyk.blogspot.com/2016/03/is-tesla-building-throwaw... I do realize that the Silicon Valley types don't care about this issue, with iPhones behind walled gardens and all that jazz (or at least, SV doesn't seem to care about it anymore... what ever happened to the vision of open source and true ownership?)... but I know plenty of people who are still interested in vehicle with open standards. Or hell, just a vehicle that can be taken from a junkyard and then repaired in a garage. You're not allowed to take a Tesla from a junkyard and salvage it, not unless you take it to a dealership and have it "reactivated" by Tesla. https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1305093/tesla-salvage-release.pdf https://s3.amazonaws.com/s3.documentcloud.org/documents/1305...

NDizzle 11y ago

One interesting thing to watch will be the resale value of the Bolts. If you haven't looked lately, look up the price of a 2014 Volt with up to 40,000 miles on it. You can get one for around $15,000 USD. If after 2 years you can get a Bolt for ~half MSRP, like you can a Volt, I'm not sure how I can resist a deal like that.