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Lots of naysayers on HN, but I left SF last year and moved to Austin. I have zero regrets. In SF, my 1 bedroom, 650 square foot apartment in SOMA went from $2,

Lots of naysayers on HN, but I left SF last year and moved to Austin. I have zero regrets. In SF, my 1 bedroom, 650 square foot apartment in SOMA went from $2,600 to $3,200 over 3 years. In Austin, my salary went down $10k to $120k/yr. My 2 bedroom, 1,100 square foot apartment is $1,150/mo. The tech scene here isn't as vibrant as SF, but there's still plenty of great meet ups. All in all, yes there are some things I miss about SF, but the benefit of having way more cash month to month outweigh the negatives. Edit: Clarity.

qntty 10y ago
Sorry if this is off-topic (and maybe a bit personal), but as a recent graduate, I'm not sure what I would do with all that extra money. What do you (or most people) generally spend it on? I make less than that, but if I didn't have student loans, I wouldn't know what to do with it besides leave it in the bank.
- fokinsean 10y ago
  > leave it in the bank cha-ching That and invest.
- vitd 10y ago
  I'm not the original poster, but I'll tell you what I've done in the past which has worked fairly well. I put as much as I'm allowed to into an IRA for retirement and into my spouse's IRA, too. I max out the matching amount on my 401k. (Those 2 things alone ensure that I'm putting away 10-15% for retirement.) I do some additional short to medium-term investment in the stock market. Nothing too risky, but enough to hopefully beat inflation. I also bought a few expensive toys that I really wanted (nice high-end camera, for example) and take regular vacations to nice spots. I started giving to charity, too. I also decided to do something closer to home and helped a relative with their student debt. I started taking some of the free time I have and that nice camera to do photography for a local charity.
- vinceguidry 10y ago
  If you're not already married, you should be using it to date. College is hands-down the best place to find a significant other. Once you've graduated, the social life you took for granted quickly fades away and finding people to spend time with and then actually spending time with them becomes vastly more difficult. If you're a cisgendered male, it can be absolutely brutal. Cisgendered female, much less so but still a problem. One of the few things that makes it easier is the willingness to be generous. Leaving it in the bank is an excellent option. You've got two main things to save for, a down payment for a house and your wedding. Better still is a balanced and sane investment portfolio, but leaving it in the bank is better than a bad portfolio, so take some time to learn how investing works if you choose to go that route.
  - warfangle 10y ago
    And if you're not cisgendered it can be even worse...
  - zavi 10y ago
    What are some smart dating strategies for a straight white male new grad in the Bay Area with 6 digits of disposable income? Dating market seems extremely competitive here.
    - ryandrake 10y ago
      > What are some smart dating strategies for a straight white male new grad in the Bay Area with 6 digits of disposable income? Spend the money on a plane ticket to somewhere with women?
      - vinceguidry 10y ago
        I wouldn't recommend this approach. A relationship is built out of time spent physically present with a person, trying to hack this by building a relationship with less time spent before marriage, or by substituting time spent in presence that is not physical, makes for a weak bond that will likely break after a few years of marriage, particularly if one or both of you have poor social skills. I emphasize social skills because, like Vitamin D, the hacker lifestyle leads us to be deficient in such a vital resource. We should be supplementing our lifestyle with lots of activities that force us to interact with other people in ways we're not used to. I've been going to the same bar for the last 8 years. It's often painful, I still don't really fit in, but it's been crucial for helping me develop my sense of self. Another good place to frequent is coffee shops, but good neighborhood coffee shops are quite rare. Starbucks doesn't really do the trick, something about the atmosphere discourages the kinds of spontaneous casual community that you really need to develop social skills.
- myblake 10y ago
  Invest it or save it and avoid debt. You will thank yourself later. If it makes sense to, consider buying a primary residence, but don't spend too much on a car, or eating out, or anything like that. Make sure you have some nice toys and are generally not wanting, but also make sure to max out your 401k and then some.
- kough 10y ago
  Give it time, you'll manage to think of something.
- rifung 10y ago
  Save/invest the money so that one day you won't have to work anymore and can do the things that you would do if you didn't have to make a living.
- delecti 10y ago
  It's really easy to spend more money if you have it.
- misframer 10y ago
  If you don't want to think too much about investing, you could invest in a target retirement date fund, e.g. VTTSX (2060)[0], and let it grow for a few decades. [0] https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/snapshot?FundIntExt=INT&FundId=1691 https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/snapshot?FundIntExt=I...
- sotojuan 10y ago
  Save, travel, and go on dates!
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- jonny_eh 10y ago
  Tesla, Oculus Rift, gaming rigs, comic books. Dating too, I guess.
  - Cshelton 10y ago
    This. Get a Tesla! And travel...
- pilom 10y ago
  $18,000 per year in your 401k, $5500 in an IRA, $3350 in an HSA. That's $26,850 right off the bat. All tax free. Then max out your student loans and save up for the down payment on a house. Then date and find a spouse with a similar mindset about money. You'll be able to retire (literally never do work you don't want to do ever again) in 15-20 years easily if you keep your spending under control.
  - steveax 10y ago
    If you max out your 401k contribution ($18,000 if you're under 50) you can also contribute to an IRA (Roth or traditional) but your contribution will not reduce your taxable income.
    - delecti 10y ago
      The two aren't related. If you max out a traditional 401k and your income is low enough that you can take the traditional IRA deduction as well. Though that deduction phases out by $71k/year, which in our field is relatively low.
- auxym 10y ago
  http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/ Thought that might be interesting, it was to me (came upon it on HN).
- seansmccullough 10y ago
  I save it, I don't want to work in an office for the rest of my life! Great opportunity to max out your 401(k) and Roth IRA.
- cylinder 10y ago
  You save and invest.
- JoshTriplett 10y ago
  > Sorry if this is off-topic (and maybe a bit personal), but as a recent graduate, I'm not sure what I would do with all that extra money. What do you (or most people) generally spend it on? I make less than that, but if I didn't have student loans, I wouldn't know what to do with it besides leave it in the bank. Saving it (in an index fund rather than a bank) is an excellent thing to do with it. Keep living like a college student (or even a fair bit better than that), and save the rest, and you'll be able to retire in your mid-to-late 30s. Resist the inclination to expand your expenses to match your income; it doesn't actually make you any happier, long-term. (Many different studies have confirmed this: increasing your level of spending tends to give you a short-term burst of happiness followed by a return to the baseline; it doesn't permanently raise your baseline.) You don't necessarily have to retire early. If you prefer, keep working past that point as long as you're enjoying yourself. You'll be able to have a lot more flexibility in your work, and later in your career you'll be well into the territory of "start your own charitable foundation" or "don't bother raising a series A".
vinay427 10y ago
Also no state income tax in TX, I believe.
- technofiend 10y ago
  Yup. From Bankrate.com - Seven U.S. states currently don't have an income tax: Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington and Wyoming. And residents of New Hampshire and Tennessee are also spared from handing over an extra chunk of their paycheck on April 15, though they do pay tax on dividends and income from investments.
  - vinay427 10y ago
    It's similarly worth noting that CA has the highest income tax rates of any state in the nation for most individuals. For instance, for incomes between around $51k and $263k the rate is 9.30%. My state's rate is 4.25%, which is closer to not having a tax at all.
    - kabes 10y ago
      As a guy from Europe I don't know much about the US tax system. If somebody mentions he earns $120k, I assume that's gross salary? What does he usually end up with net? From what I understand it depends on the state. Is that 4.25% you talk about the only tax there is?
      - coderholic 10y ago
        There's also federal tax, which is around 25%. You then pay state tax on top. I moved to the US from the UK, and the total tax is roughly the same.
        vinay427 10y ago
        The major tax difference in the UK from my understanding is the 20% standard VAT, which is obviously much higher than any sales tax in the US.
runT1ME 10y ago
I guess the argument against your move would be potential future earnings. If you top out at your current salary, you made the right choice. But if you continue on an upward trajectory, what do you think the top money (as an employee) could possibly be in Austin? Now compare that to the Bay. I'd guess it's not even close, no?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- Apocryphon 10y ago
  Would the potential future earnings be sufficient to purchase a home in SF? That's comparable to what he or she could get in Austin?
  - jdhawk 10y ago
    It matters on when. Austin is one of the fastest growing cities in the US for this exact reason. Its having a HUGE impact on the price of housing. What I bought in 2009 is now worth double (good for me, bad for new buyers). We have shit transportation infrastructure & the housing market is (for us) insane.
    - Cshelton 10y ago
      All this Austin talk...seriously, the tech scene in Texas has moved on to Dallas...the actual highest growth city in the U.S. Many people from Austin have already come here.
CoachRufus87 10y ago
In what part of town did you find a 2br for $1,150?
Periodic 10y ago
I'm in the process of moving to Sacramento from San Jose. My wife and I sat down and looked at what made us happy and we decided that living in Silicon Valley was not high on our list. I'm tired of the costs and crowding. The cost of living is about 30% lower and housing is significantly lower. I'm managing my career by working for a San Francisco company and working remotely. I'll commute in once a week, which is still less commuting than I was doing in the bay area. I'll have a house instead of a condo. I'll have a nicer/larger place. I'll have plenty of things to do (though things still close early). I'll be closer to my family. I'll be able to support my wife when she goes back to school. I'm looking forward to it.
- yompers888 10y ago
  Plus, your proximity to Tahoe skiing is to die for!
ryandrake 10y ago
Just curious: How did you manage to transfer your Bay Area salary to Austin? I would imagine that $120K is a ridiculous amount there. How did you even ask for it with a straight face? Are you making 2X all of your co-workers or something?
- bkjelden 10y ago
  HIRED indicates it's not unreasonable at all: http://get.hired.com/rs/348-IPO-044/images/Hired-State-of-Salaries.pdf http://get.hired.com/rs/348-IPO-044/images/Hired-State-of-Sa...
  - ryandrake 10y ago
    Wow, I stand corrected. Maybe I need to start looking at Austin...
  - austin34 10y ago
    I work in Austin, and can confirm that $120k is not ridiculous.
  - Xcelerate 10y ago
    That's very interesting. Thanks for posting that.
- Cshelton 10y ago
  I'm in Dallas and I just hired multiple people at around 120k each. 120k is very reasonable here. 60k is entry level here...you might be able to get away with 50... 200k+ isn't uncommon either. There is a stupid amount of money here in tech... Not as much VC money, but startups and small businesses actually making rev. (Not social 'pre revenue' apps made by kids) thrive here.
bakerstreet 10y ago
Plus you don't have state taxes in Texas. I don't know if Austin has city tax but I doubt it.
b3b0p 10y ago
Where did you move to in Austin with 1,100 square foot for $1,150 / month? I am in downtown Austin. My rent is just shy of double that and I only have a 500 or so square foot apartment. I have a hard time believing you moved to something comparable to SOMA. I'm going to guess you live either more North or South of downtown and have to commute if you work or want to get downtown. Which I think many would agree is not even close to comparable of living in SOMA. Also, if memory serves BART is far superior and actually a legitimate means of transportation. Our transportation situation here in Austin is a bit of a joke unless you live directly downtown.
- enraged_camel 10y ago
  Not the OP, but I live less than four miles north of downtown Austin and my rent is $800. I have two roommates and we have a 2000 square feet backyard. I wake up every morning to bird's chirping outside my window. It's amazing.
  - b3b0p 10y ago
    4 miles North is definitely not downtown Austin and to me might as well be in Oklahoma, haha. I enjoy being directly in the middle of everything, not having to commute, and no car. I'd much rather pay double, live in a smaller area, in the middle of everything. The last thing I want is a yard, again. Different strokes or something like that, right?
Cshelton 10y ago
You should come visit Dallas. The tech scene has blown up here, I'd say bigger than Austin now.

qntty 10y ago

Sorry if this is off-topic (and maybe a bit personal), but as a recent graduate, I'm not sure what I would do with all that extra money. What do you (or most people) generally spend it on? I make less than that, but if I didn't have student loans, I wouldn't know what to do with it besides leave it in the bank.

fokinsean 10y ago
> leave it in the bank cha-ching That and invest.
vitd 10y ago
I'm not the original poster, but I'll tell you what I've done in the past which has worked fairly well. I put as much as I'm allowed to into an IRA for retirement and into my spouse's IRA, too. I max out the matching amount on my 401k. (Those 2 things alone ensure that I'm putting away 10-15% for retirement.) I do some additional short to medium-term investment in the stock market. Nothing too risky, but enough to hopefully beat inflation. I also bought a few expensive toys that I really wanted (nice high-end camera, for example) and take regular vacations to nice spots. I started giving to charity, too. I also decided to do something closer to home and helped a relative with their student debt. I started taking some of the free time I have and that nice camera to do photography for a local charity.
vinceguidry 10y ago
If you're not already married, you should be using it to date. College is hands-down the best place to find a significant other. Once you've graduated, the social life you took for granted quickly fades away and finding people to spend time with and then actually spending time with them becomes vastly more difficult. If you're a cisgendered male, it can be absolutely brutal. Cisgendered female, much less so but still a problem. One of the few things that makes it easier is the willingness to be generous. Leaving it in the bank is an excellent option. You've got two main things to save for, a down payment for a house and your wedding. Better still is a balanced and sane investment portfolio, but leaving it in the bank is better than a bad portfolio, so take some time to learn how investing works if you choose to go that route.
- warfangle 10y ago
  And if you're not cisgendered it can be even worse...
- zavi 10y ago
  What are some smart dating strategies for a straight white male new grad in the Bay Area with 6 digits of disposable income? Dating market seems extremely competitive here.
  - ryandrake 10y ago
    > What are some smart dating strategies for a straight white male new grad in the Bay Area with 6 digits of disposable income? Spend the money on a plane ticket to somewhere with women?
    - vinceguidry 10y ago
      I wouldn't recommend this approach. A relationship is built out of time spent physically present with a person, trying to hack this by building a relationship with less time spent before marriage, or by substituting time spent in presence that is not physical, makes for a weak bond that will likely break after a few years of marriage, particularly if one or both of you have poor social skills. I emphasize social skills because, like Vitamin D, the hacker lifestyle leads us to be deficient in such a vital resource. We should be supplementing our lifestyle with lots of activities that force us to interact with other people in ways we're not used to. I've been going to the same bar for the last 8 years. It's often painful, I still don't really fit in, but it's been crucial for helping me develop my sense of self. Another good place to frequent is coffee shops, but good neighborhood coffee shops are quite rare. Starbucks doesn't really do the trick, something about the atmosphere discourages the kinds of spontaneous casual community that you really need to develop social skills.
myblake 10y ago
Invest it or save it and avoid debt. You will thank yourself later. If it makes sense to, consider buying a primary residence, but don't spend too much on a car, or eating out, or anything like that. Make sure you have some nice toys and are generally not wanting, but also make sure to max out your 401k and then some.
kough 10y ago
Give it time, you'll manage to think of something.
rifung 10y ago
Save/invest the money so that one day you won't have to work anymore and can do the things that you would do if you didn't have to make a living.
delecti 10y ago
It's really easy to spend more money if you have it.
misframer 10y ago
If you don't want to think too much about investing, you could invest in a target retirement date fund, e.g. VTTSX (2060)[0], and let it grow for a few decades. [0] https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/snapshot?FundIntExt=INT&FundId=1691 https://personal.vanguard.com/us/funds/snapshot?FundIntExt=I...
sotojuan 10y ago
Save, travel, and go on dates!
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
jonny_eh 10y ago
Tesla, Oculus Rift, gaming rigs, comic books. Dating too, I guess.
- Cshelton 10y ago
  This. Get a Tesla! And travel...
pilom 10y ago
$18,000 per year in your 401k, $5500 in an IRA, $3350 in an HSA. That's $26,850 right off the bat. All tax free. Then max out your student loans and save up for the down payment on a house. Then date and find a spouse with a similar mindset about money. You'll be able to retire (literally never do work you don't want to do ever again) in 15-20 years easily if you keep your spending under control.
- steveax 10y ago
  If you max out your 401k contribution ($18,000 if you're under 50) you can also contribute to an IRA (Roth or traditional) but your contribution will not reduce your taxable income.
  - delecti 10y ago
    The two aren't related. If you max out a traditional 401k and your income is low enough that you can take the traditional IRA deduction as well. Though that deduction phases out by $71k/year, which in our field is relatively low.
auxym 10y ago
http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/ http://www.mrmoneymustache.com/ Thought that might be interesting, it was to me (came upon it on HN).
seansmccullough 10y ago
I save it, I don't want to work in an office for the rest of my life! Great opportunity to max out your 401(k) and Roth IRA.
cylinder 10y ago
You save and invest.
JoshTriplett 10y ago
> Sorry if this is off-topic (and maybe a bit personal), but as a recent graduate, I'm not sure what I would do with all that extra money. What do you (or most people) generally spend it on? I make less than that, but if I didn't have student loans, I wouldn't know what to do with it besides leave it in the bank. Saving it (in an index fund rather than a bank) is an excellent thing to do with it. Keep living like a college student (or even a fair bit better than that), and save the rest, and you'll be able to retire in your mid-to-late 30s. Resist the inclination to expand your expenses to match your income; it doesn't actually make you any happier, long-term. (Many different studies have confirmed this: increasing your level of spending tends to give you a short-term burst of happiness followed by a return to the baseline; it doesn't permanently raise your baseline.) You don't necessarily have to retire early. If you prefer, keep working past that point as long as you're enjoying yourself. You'll be able to have a lot more flexibility in your work, and later in your career you'll be well into the territory of "start your own charitable foundation" or "don't bother raising a series A".

vinay427 10y ago

Also no state income tax in TX, I believe.

technofiend 10y ago
Yup. From Bankrate.com - Seven U.S. states currently don't have an income tax: Alaska, Florida, Nevada, South Dakota, Texas, Washington and Wyoming. And residents of New Hampshire and Tennessee are also spared from handing over an extra chunk of their paycheck on April 15, though they do pay tax on dividends and income from investments.
- vinay427 10y ago
  It's similarly worth noting that CA has the highest income tax rates of any state in the nation for most individuals. For instance, for incomes between around $51k and $263k the rate is 9.30%. My state's rate is 4.25%, which is closer to not having a tax at all.
  - kabes 10y ago
    As a guy from Europe I don't know much about the US tax system. If somebody mentions he earns $120k, I assume that's gross salary? What does he usually end up with net? From what I understand it depends on the state. Is that 4.25% you talk about the only tax there is?
    - coderholic 10y ago
      There's also federal tax, which is around 25%. You then pay state tax on top. I moved to the US from the UK, and the total tax is roughly the same.
      - vinay427 10y ago
        The major tax difference in the UK from my understanding is the 20% standard VAT, which is obviously much higher than any sales tax in the US.

runT1ME 10y ago

I guess the argument against your move would be potential future earnings. If you top out at your current salary, you made the right choice. But if you continue on an upward trajectory, what do you think the top money (as an employee) could possibly be in Austin? Now compare that to the Bay. I'd guess it's not even close, no?

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
Apocryphon 10y ago
Would the potential future earnings be sufficient to purchase a home in SF? That's comparable to what he or she could get in Austin?
- jdhawk 10y ago
  It matters on when. Austin is one of the fastest growing cities in the US for this exact reason. Its having a HUGE impact on the price of housing. What I bought in 2009 is now worth double (good for me, bad for new buyers). We have shit transportation infrastructure & the housing market is (for us) insane.
  - Cshelton 10y ago
    All this Austin talk...seriously, the tech scene in Texas has moved on to Dallas...the actual highest growth city in the U.S. Many people from Austin have already come here.

CoachRufus87 10y ago

In what part of town did you find a 2br for $1,150?

Periodic 10y ago

I'm in the process of moving to Sacramento from San Jose. My wife and I sat down and looked at what made us happy and we decided that living in Silicon Valley was not high on our list. I'm tired of the costs and crowding. The cost of living is about 30% lower and housing is significantly lower. I'm managing my career by working for a San Francisco company and working remotely. I'll commute in once a week, which is still less commuting than I was doing in the bay area. I'll have a house instead of a condo. I'll have a nicer/larger place. I'll have plenty of things to do (though things still close early). I'll be closer to my family. I'll be able to support my wife when she goes back to school. I'm looking forward to it.

yompers888 10y ago
Plus, your proximity to Tahoe skiing is to die for!

ryandrake 10y ago

Just curious: How did you manage to transfer your Bay Area salary to Austin? I would imagine that $120K is a ridiculous amount there. How did you even ask for it with a straight face? Are you making 2X all of your co-workers or something?

bkjelden 10y ago
HIRED indicates it's not unreasonable at all: http://get.hired.com/rs/348-IPO-044/images/Hired-State-of-Salaries.pdf http://get.hired.com/rs/348-IPO-044/images/Hired-State-of-Sa...
- ryandrake 10y ago
  Wow, I stand corrected. Maybe I need to start looking at Austin...
- austin34 10y ago
  I work in Austin, and can confirm that $120k is not ridiculous.
- Xcelerate 10y ago
  That's very interesting. Thanks for posting that.
Cshelton 10y ago
I'm in Dallas and I just hired multiple people at around 120k each. 120k is very reasonable here. 60k is entry level here...you might be able to get away with 50... 200k+ isn't uncommon either. There is a stupid amount of money here in tech... Not as much VC money, but startups and small businesses actually making rev. (Not social 'pre revenue' apps made by kids) thrive here.

bakerstreet 10y ago

Plus you don't have state taxes in Texas. I don't know if Austin has city tax but I doubt it.

b3b0p 10y ago

Where did you move to in Austin with 1,100 square foot for $1,150 / month? I am in downtown Austin. My rent is just shy of double that and I only have a 500 or so square foot apartment. I have a hard time believing you moved to something comparable to SOMA. I'm going to guess you live either more North or South of downtown and have to commute if you work or want to get downtown. Which I think many would agree is not even close to comparable of living in SOMA. Also, if memory serves BART is far superior and actually a legitimate means of transportation. Our transportation situation here in Austin is a bit of a joke unless you live directly downtown.

enraged_camel 10y ago
Not the OP, but I live less than four miles north of downtown Austin and my rent is $800. I have two roommates and we have a 2000 square feet backyard. I wake up every morning to bird's chirping outside my window. It's amazing.
- b3b0p 10y ago
  4 miles North is definitely not downtown Austin and to me might as well be in Oklahoma, haha. I enjoy being directly in the middle of everything, not having to commute, and no car. I'd much rather pay double, live in a smaller area, in the middle of everything. The last thing I want is a yard, again. Different strokes or something like that, right?

Cshelton 10y ago

You should come visit Dallas. The tech scene has blown up here, I'd say bigger than Austin now.