5 ms·

As already mentioned, there's already a setting for turning off notifications globally: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11433799 https://news.ycombinator.c

by Touche 11y ago

As already mentioned, there's already a setting for turning off notifications globally: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11433799 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11433799 Having a web feature off by default is essentially damning it to not exist, so that's a non-starter. If you don't like the features that are enabled by web standards most of them can be globally disabled by turning JavaScript off.

coldtea 11y ago
>As already mentioned, there's already a setting for turning off notifications globally That's good, but might be too blunt a hammer. What should be is a standard way to turn them on/off per individual site, WITHOUT unsolicited popups. >Having a web feature off by default is essentially damning it to not exist, so that's a non-starter. As an IT teacher in a past life I've seen 10 year old kids go through 10 layers of obscure program settings to enable a particular behavior / proxy their way out of a school network / etc. If people care enough for notifications, they will find a way to enable them. If they don't, no harm done.
- oh_sigh 11y ago
  > If people care enough for notifications, they will find a way to enable them. If they don't, no harm done. If people don't care enough about notifications, they will find a way to disable them. If they don't, no harm done. I appreciate that you have your own preference on this matter, but do you really think that most people don't like notifications? Most people want them.
  - tdicola 11y ago
    > Most people want them. Source?
    - Zarel 11y ago
      In this thread, most people calling for deny to be the default state for notifications are being downvoted, while people defending the default of "ask" are being upvoted. Do you consider this sufficient evidence?
      - tdicola 11y ago
        Absolutely not. This is an echo chamber of people interested in technology and startups. To extrapolate out to the broader entire web user audience is a massive logical fallacy. I would hope that's obvious to almost anyone.
  - lawnchair_larry 11y ago
    Most people don't. Most people are annoyed by their browser bugging them to make decisions for things they don't care about or need. Notifications from browsers or web pages is clearly a poor fit, UX wise.
    - andybak 11y ago
      Lack of notifications rules out an entire class of potential applications. We can bicker about implementation but saying "web apps don't need notifications" is as nonsensical as saying "desktop apps don't need notifications".
  - coldtea 11y ago
    >I appreciate that you have your own preference on this matter, but do you really think that most people don't like notifications? Most people want them. A source for that? What's a fact is that all people didn't had them for the first 15+ years of the web, and I've never heard people complaining about that lack -- whereas people always asked for faster loading websites, less popups, no auto-play for sound and videos, ability to turn off ads, etc.
    - esailija 11y ago
      Notifications are necessary for many applications, they are not for traditional websites although sadly that doesn't stop them from requesting permission. Imo the notification feature really should require at least https, like many other intended-for-applications browser features like service worker and location. On mobile you could replace most native apps (twitter, facebook, mail etc) with a web app if they supported notifications and save gigabytes of space for stuff that actually needs to be native.
    - oh_sigh 11y ago
      People didn't have a lot of stuff for X+ years of the web. I'm not really sure how that is an argument for or against something. None of the desires you list are associated with notifications.
- andrewpe 11y ago
  The problem is discovery. How are normal users suppose to understand the web as notifications now?
  - tdicola 11y ago
    When you visit an SSL encrypted website a little lock icon appears. It used to be when you visited a site with an RSS feed a little RSS icon would light up. I see no reason why notifications shouldn't be exactly the same. Give some ambient/unobtrusive notification of the capability. Don't force me to stop what I'm doing and make some decision for something completely orthogonal to what I'm currently doing.
    - Touche 11y ago
      You can already ignore notification permission dialogs.

by Touche 11y ago

coldtea 11y ago

>As already mentioned, there's already a setting for turning off notifications globally That's good, but might be too blunt a hammer. What should be is a standard way to turn them on/off per individual site, WITHOUT unsolicited popups. >Having a web feature off by default is essentially damning it to not exist, so that's a non-starter. As an IT teacher in a past life I've seen 10 year old kids go through 10 layers of obscure program settings to enable a particular behavior / proxy their way out of a school network / etc. If people care enough for notifications, they will find a way to enable them. If they don't, no harm done.

oh_sigh 11y ago
> If people care enough for notifications, they will find a way to enable them. If they don't, no harm done. If people don't care enough about notifications, they will find a way to disable them. If they don't, no harm done. I appreciate that you have your own preference on this matter, but do you really think that most people don't like notifications? Most people want them.
- tdicola 11y ago
  > Most people want them. Source?
  - Zarel 11y ago
    In this thread, most people calling for deny to be the default state for notifications are being downvoted, while people defending the default of "ask" are being upvoted. Do you consider this sufficient evidence?
    - tdicola 11y ago
      Absolutely not. This is an echo chamber of people interested in technology and startups. To extrapolate out to the broader entire web user audience is a massive logical fallacy. I would hope that's obvious to almost anyone.
- lawnchair_larry 11y ago
  Most people don't. Most people are annoyed by their browser bugging them to make decisions for things they don't care about or need. Notifications from browsers or web pages is clearly a poor fit, UX wise.
  - andybak 11y ago
    Lack of notifications rules out an entire class of potential applications. We can bicker about implementation but saying "web apps don't need notifications" is as nonsensical as saying "desktop apps don't need notifications".
- coldtea 11y ago
  >I appreciate that you have your own preference on this matter, but do you really think that most people don't like notifications? Most people want them. A source for that? What's a fact is that all people didn't had them for the first 15+ years of the web, and I've never heard people complaining about that lack -- whereas people always asked for faster loading websites, less popups, no auto-play for sound and videos, ability to turn off ads, etc.
  - esailija 11y ago
    Notifications are necessary for many applications, they are not for traditional websites although sadly that doesn't stop them from requesting permission. Imo the notification feature really should require at least https, like many other intended-for-applications browser features like service worker and location. On mobile you could replace most native apps (twitter, facebook, mail etc) with a web app if they supported notifications and save gigabytes of space for stuff that actually needs to be native.
  - oh_sigh 11y ago
    People didn't have a lot of stuff for X+ years of the web. I'm not really sure how that is an argument for or against something. None of the desires you list are associated with notifications.
andrewpe 11y ago
The problem is discovery. How are normal users suppose to understand the web as notifications now?
- tdicola 11y ago
  When you visit an SSL encrypted website a little lock icon appears. It used to be when you visited a site with an RSS feed a little RSS icon would light up. I see no reason why notifications shouldn't be exactly the same. Give some ambient/unobtrusive notification of the capability. Don't force me to stop what I'm doing and make some decision for something completely orthogonal to what I'm currently doing.
  - Touche 11y ago
    You can already ignore notification permission dialogs.