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Can any lawyer kindly shed some light on why tax evasion by politicians is so wrong that they should step down? Just trying to understand.

cjbprime 11y ago
As I understand it, it's only especially wrong in Iceland, where the ruling party is (a) running on a platform of hostility towards large banks; (b) currently negotiating with those banks to decide how much public money they should get; and (c) we now find that the primary negotiator is invested in the banks he's negotiating against (through bonds held offshore), which he is supposed to be philosophically opposed to the success of on some basic level. Or something like that.
- glup 11y ago
  I agree with the above, but I think there's also a more general Scandinavian/Swiss/German ethic that strongly values playing by the rules. Many citizens in these countries have a very different view of government than most do in the US: if collective adherence to rules results in better collective outcomes, and you if you value collective outcomes (perhaps because they are relatively culturally, ethnically, and socioeconomically homogenous populations), then regulation isn't a thing to find a way around for personal benefit. I think the above sentiment gets further reified as it becomes pare of the national identity: corruption scandals are for tropical dictators, not well-off postindustrial democracies. this varies by region in the US, obviously. I suspect that the frequency of Pittsburgh lefts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_left https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_left) is a pretty decent proxy for valuing system-optimal outcomes
  - cfallin 11y ago
    It's fascinating to me that you mention Pittsburgh lefts as a sign of altruism / global-outcome-optimization. I currently live in Pittsburgh and... let's just say that I would not hold the average driver up as a model of selflessness. I think it's more that we've reached a local equilibrium: new drivers learn quickly to wait when a light turns green, as a matter of avoiding accidents, and also to take advantage of that pause when turning left, as a matter of not angering everyone behind them. It's difficult to change the equilibrium as long as you interact with others following the current system. (It's entirely possible that one could view this as emergent-behavior-converging-on-altruism without anyone consciously being altruistic. I'm just saying that anecdotally, it doesn't seem to derive directly from conscious altruistic values.)
    - macintux 11y ago
      I witnessed a car in downtown Indianapolis pull that stunt. Of course, the driver accelerated straight into a pedestrian, who was less than enthused.
    - kevin_thibedeau 11y ago
      At least in North Jersey, the persistent problem of making left turns does lead to more altruistic behavior. Many people will yield unnecessarily to drivers and bicyclists who are stuck waiting to turn. It is still aggravating when a signalized intersection lacks a left turn phase, "just because".
IkmoIkmo 11y ago
Evasion is illegal. You don't need to be a lawyer for that: you must be transparent to the tax authorities, completely, on which basis they can tax you. Panama is interesting because it allows you to hold wealth in a country that discloses very little to any tax authorities, thereby illegally evading taxes. Tax avoidance is different, and it's legal. Finally, I'm not intimately aware of his tax mistakes. Primarily I keep seeing reporting on how his wife has bonds from an Icelandic bank and he, as PM, sought to have this bank pay its debtholders (including his wife) during the financial crisis (which was a financial meltdown in Iceland), an obvious conflict of interest. That's what I hear was mainly the issue.
dagurp 11y ago
The blatant lies about it did not help his case

cjbprime 11y ago

As I understand it, it's only especially wrong in Iceland, where the ruling party is (a) running on a platform of hostility towards large banks; (b) currently negotiating with those banks to decide how much public money they should get; and (c) we now find that the primary negotiator is invested in the banks he's negotiating against (through bonds held offshore), which he is supposed to be philosophically opposed to the success of on some basic level. Or something like that.

glup 11y ago
I agree with the above, but I think there's also a more general Scandinavian/Swiss/German ethic that strongly values playing by the rules. Many citizens in these countries have a very different view of government than most do in the US: if collective adherence to rules results in better collective outcomes, and you if you value collective outcomes (perhaps because they are relatively culturally, ethnically, and socioeconomically homogenous populations), then regulation isn't a thing to find a way around for personal benefit. I think the above sentiment gets further reified as it becomes pare of the national identity: corruption scandals are for tropical dictators, not well-off postindustrial democracies. this varies by region in the US, obviously. I suspect that the frequency of Pittsburgh lefts (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_left https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pittsburgh_left) is a pretty decent proxy for valuing system-optimal outcomes
- cfallin 11y ago
  It's fascinating to me that you mention Pittsburgh lefts as a sign of altruism / global-outcome-optimization. I currently live in Pittsburgh and... let's just say that I would not hold the average driver up as a model of selflessness. I think it's more that we've reached a local equilibrium: new drivers learn quickly to wait when a light turns green, as a matter of avoiding accidents, and also to take advantage of that pause when turning left, as a matter of not angering everyone behind them. It's difficult to change the equilibrium as long as you interact with others following the current system. (It's entirely possible that one could view this as emergent-behavior-converging-on-altruism without anyone consciously being altruistic. I'm just saying that anecdotally, it doesn't seem to derive directly from conscious altruistic values.)
  - macintux 11y ago
    I witnessed a car in downtown Indianapolis pull that stunt. Of course, the driver accelerated straight into a pedestrian, who was less than enthused.
  - kevin_thibedeau 11y ago
    At least in North Jersey, the persistent problem of making left turns does lead to more altruistic behavior. Many people will yield unnecessarily to drivers and bicyclists who are stuck waiting to turn. It is still aggravating when a signalized intersection lacks a left turn phase, "just because".

IkmoIkmo 11y ago

Evasion is illegal. You don't need to be a lawyer for that: you must be transparent to the tax authorities, completely, on which basis they can tax you. Panama is interesting because it allows you to hold wealth in a country that discloses very little to any tax authorities, thereby illegally evading taxes. Tax avoidance is different, and it's legal. Finally, I'm not intimately aware of his tax mistakes. Primarily I keep seeing reporting on how his wife has bonds from an Icelandic bank and he, as PM, sought to have this bank pay its debtholders (including his wife) during the financial crisis (which was a financial meltdown in Iceland), an obvious conflict of interest. That's what I hear was mainly the issue.

dagurp 11y ago

The blatant lies about it did not help his case