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This is still ridiculous. Because someone else is being inconsiderate of how their actions affect me, i should ignore how their actions affect me. I have to adm

This is still ridiculous. Because someone else is being inconsiderate of how their actions affect me, i should ignore how their actions affect me. I have to admit i am being somewhat coy by taking issue with the post i replied to, which, by the way, makes a general prescription of what not to take personally without knowing any context. I understand the attitude of ignoring things that cause personal discomfort or harm based on intended effect. I think it's ridiculous, and more often than not people prescribe such behavior for others but are quite comfortable taking personally that which... personally affects them. Silent forgiveness for the inconsiderate instead of numerous means of improving one's relationship with them. Telling someone that they are treating you in an unacceptable manner is, by definition, taking it personally. And being passive and avoiding such conversations is exactly how unpleasant social interactions persist and grow into a climate of alienation and dysfunction. > You can't delineate a set of criteria for when to take a statement said to you "personally". Sure i can. When it affects you, personally. People who disagree with me can't come up with a set of criteria. Without such a criteria, there is no justification of the attitude. > For one thing, taking something personally isn't a binary attribute, it is far more complicated than that. Taking something personally is binary in this way: you either ignore the personal effects a relationship has on you or you signal/take action based on those personal effects. All of the complication lies in how one proceeds based on their feelings. Mediation and conflict resolution are complicated yes. But you can't resolve a conflict without signaling that it exists and that you have a personal stake in it. That is exactly what taking something personally means. There are large-scale social implications. People who are lower in status are told to not take it personally more often than people of higher status. When a boss is emotionally abusive, people are far more likely to excuse such behavior than if an underling is being emotionally abusive. In other words, prescribing to people to passively accept uncomfortable or harmful social interactions without protest becomes a mechanism of power. The effects are alienation, depersonalization, stress, and social dysfunction. That shit infests our society.

dwaltrip 11y ago
To be clear, I never said things should never be taken personally. I tried to imply that is impractical to try to come up with super specific criteria when you take it personally, and when you should let it go. It's going to a fuzzy thing that depends on specific circumstances. Sure, you can have some general principles, but I don't see how one can try to formalize it. I also didn't say you should ignore your feelings. Personally, I make an effort to be aware of my visceral reactions when things happen, and to not let my automatic, gut reaction run away with itself. But I do want to my understand my feelings, not just stifle them. However, I also try to emulate the mental space of the person who said the thing, and the wider impact of me speaking up, and only say something if I feel it will be received in a productive fashion and will be generally beneficial. Highly personal criticism (even when constructive) usually loses effectiveness if it is overgiven, and is also a socially expensive thing, as it often feels negative for the recipient in the initial instant. It also carries less weight when coming from someone you don't know that well or haven't built up trust with, which makes the expensive interaction to give feedback often times a waste, with little ROI.
Kapow 11y ago
I think most people are reading that example and imagining a one-off harsh interaction with someone who doesn't usually snap like that, while the way you describe it: > how unpleasant social interactions persist and grow into a climate of alienation and dysfunction is more like someone you expect to be rude to you all the time unless you tell them not to be. If that's not going to happen, then just letting it go could be a reasonable response. There's also the fact that this is being recounted after the fact, which implies not just hurt feelings in the moment but a lasting grudge held over something most people wouldn't be bothered by, which can also be toxic to relationships. > > You can't delineate a set of criteria for when to take a statement said to you "personally". > Sure i can. When it affects you, personally. People who disagree with me can't come up with a set of criteria. Fair enough. Everyone takes offense at different things. But if your threshold is set so low that interactions that most people wouldn't find "uncomfortable or harmful" are "unacceptable" to you, then any interaction with you becomes difficult, and that difficulty will drive people away and alienate you. That's how you're coming across here, and that's why people are suggesting you try to change yourself, change the way you view these interactions, instead of just insisting that everyone else change to accommodate you. "Don't take it personally" doesn't mean "don't react to things that bother you", it means "don't let it bother you". For things that have no ill intent and don't bother most people (even when it's directed at them), that's good advice.

dwaltrip 11y ago

To be clear, I never said things should never be taken personally. I tried to imply that is impractical to try to come up with super specific criteria when you take it personally, and when you should let it go. It's going to a fuzzy thing that depends on specific circumstances. Sure, you can have some general principles, but I don't see how one can try to formalize it. I also didn't say you should ignore your feelings. Personally, I make an effort to be aware of my visceral reactions when things happen, and to not let my automatic, gut reaction run away with itself. But I do want to my understand my feelings, not just stifle them. However, I also try to emulate the mental space of the person who said the thing, and the wider impact of me speaking up, and only say something if I feel it will be received in a productive fashion and will be generally beneficial. Highly personal criticism (even when constructive) usually loses effectiveness if it is overgiven, and is also a socially expensive thing, as it often feels negative for the recipient in the initial instant. It also carries less weight when coming from someone you don't know that well or haven't built up trust with, which makes the expensive interaction to give feedback often times a waste, with little ROI.

Kapow 11y ago

I think most people are reading that example and imagining a one-off harsh interaction with someone who doesn't usually snap like that, while the way you describe it: > how unpleasant social interactions persist and grow into a climate of alienation and dysfunction is more like someone you expect to be rude to you all the time unless you tell them not to be. If that's not going to happen, then just letting it go could be a reasonable response. There's also the fact that this is being recounted after the fact, which implies not just hurt feelings in the moment but a lasting grudge held over something most people wouldn't be bothered by, which can also be toxic to relationships. > > You can't delineate a set of criteria for when to take a statement said to you "personally". > Sure i can. When it affects you, personally. People who disagree with me can't come up with a set of criteria. Fair enough. Everyone takes offense at different things. But if your threshold is set so low that interactions that most people wouldn't find "uncomfortable or harmful" are "unacceptable" to you, then any interaction with you becomes difficult, and that difficulty will drive people away and alienate you. That's how you're coming across here, and that's why people are suggesting you try to change yourself, change the way you view these interactions, instead of just insisting that everyone else change to accommodate you. "Don't take it personally" doesn't mean "don't react to things that bother you", it means "don't let it bother you". For things that have no ill intent and don't bother most people (even when it's directed at them), that's good advice.