4 ms·

You're doing it again. You are using hyperbolic rude language, calling an adult a "child" -- that is being childish. And you are ignoring the reality that peop

by tamana 11y ago

You're doing it again. You are using hyperbolic rude language, calling an adult a "child" -- that is being childish. And you are ignoring the reality that people all have different levels of knowledge and experience -- there is no binary flip between child and adult. People will extrapolate from their limited interactions with you, because communication is lossy. When you snap "don't touch that" they will obey "stay away from me as much as possible"

arm 11y ago
Actually, I don’t think he was doing that (calling an adult a child). I believe when he said “it's not necessary to always treat someone as a child”, he was referring to this part of the parent comment: “"I like the fact that you took initiative on something that needs doing. However, we have established ways of doing this. There may also be other things you should be doing with your time instead. If you don't, here, sit behind me and let's set it up together. And in the future, check with me before you jump into something like this."” Frankly, that does seem like the sort of response a parent might give their child when they do something wrong.
- purerandomness 11y ago
  > Frankly, that does seem like the sort of response a parent might give their child when they do something wrong. To me, it sounds like normal, human communication. I'm not surprised it's also used in parenting. I'd rather work in an environment where this style of communication is encouraged (as opposed to the response the author got) - wouldn't you?
  - mosdave 11y ago
    > I'd rather work in an environment where this style of communication is encouraged (as opposed to the response the author got) - wouldn't you? no.
knieveltech 11y ago
Someone says "don't touch that" (with cause) and an individual goes on to parse that as "stay away from me until the end of time" then they brought some baggage into the conversation. It's more than questionable to expect others to be aware of said baggage much less expect them to be extra-super-careful to not tip over the emotional apple cart. Far enough down that continuum and you've arrived at emotional hostage-taking. Much simpler to parse what was said at face value and go on with your day.
- basseq 11y ago
  Let's break down the terse response: "Get away from that -- it's mine, not yours. Please do your job and leave me to mine." As the junior dev, what am I taking away from this? The core message ("I shouldn't have done that thing I did.") is crystal clear. But WHY. Did I configure it wrong? Is there some process I'm not aware of? Is Senior Dev even right, or is he just a possessive jerk? Are there other rules I don't know about that I'm going to suddenly trip over? You can play the "figure it out" card and not "coddle" them. That's an approach, but it's not a very effective one. At the very least, tell them what to do, not what not to do.
  - knieveltech 11y ago
    I'm having a hard time deciding if this is a troll. In a teaching position I'd agree wholeheartedly, but that's not what's being discussed. You're at work. By definition this means you're supposed to have at least some grasp of what your job duties are and it's a given that stuff outside of your job description is to be left to others unless you're given the go ahead before proceeding. Working a drive-thru, framing houses, industrial fabrication, structural steel work, tech support, professional development, they all have that in common. I certainly should not have to have the conversational equivalent of emailing a team member their job description to remind them to stay on their patch.
    - basseq 11y ago
      Not a troll. I'm playing a little bit of devil's advocate, but I also think this talk of dogs and dinner bowls is rediculous. There's a line here. I've had "busybody" team members who make life difficult for everyone else no matter what you tell them. And my patience quickly wears thin if I have to tell you more than once. But conversely, someone who's going to twiddle their thumbs and not help because "it's not in my job description"... I don't have time for that attitude either, and I won't stand for my team making it the cultural norm. As a senior member of a team, one of your jobs is to develop the more junior people. It is a teaching position: always. If you can't do that, or you think snapping at them "teaches a lesson", it's time to have a conversation about the "senior" in your title. At the end of the day, we're talking about a hypothetical situation. There are exceptions to every rule, but my starting point is, "How can we make this person better?"

by tamana 11y ago

arm 11y ago

Actually, I don’t think he was doing that (calling an adult a child). I believe when he said “it's not necessary to always treat someone as a child”, he was referring to this part of the parent comment: “"I like the fact that you took initiative on something that needs doing. However, we have established ways of doing this. There may also be other things you should be doing with your time instead. If you don't, here, sit behind me and let's set it up together. And in the future, check with me before you jump into something like this."” Frankly, that does seem like the sort of response a parent might give their child when they do something wrong.

purerandomness 11y ago
> Frankly, that does seem like the sort of response a parent might give their child when they do something wrong. To me, it sounds like normal, human communication. I'm not surprised it's also used in parenting. I'd rather work in an environment where this style of communication is encouraged (as opposed to the response the author got) - wouldn't you?
- mosdave 11y ago
  > I'd rather work in an environment where this style of communication is encouraged (as opposed to the response the author got) - wouldn't you? no.

knieveltech 11y ago

Someone says "don't touch that" (with cause) and an individual goes on to parse that as "stay away from me until the end of time" then they brought some baggage into the conversation. It's more than questionable to expect others to be aware of said baggage much less expect them to be extra-super-careful to not tip over the emotional apple cart. Far enough down that continuum and you've arrived at emotional hostage-taking. Much simpler to parse what was said at face value and go on with your day.

basseq 11y ago
Let's break down the terse response: "Get away from that -- it's mine, not yours. Please do your job and leave me to mine." As the junior dev, what am I taking away from this? The core message ("I shouldn't have done that thing I did.") is crystal clear. But WHY. Did I configure it wrong? Is there some process I'm not aware of? Is Senior Dev even right, or is he just a possessive jerk? Are there other rules I don't know about that I'm going to suddenly trip over? You can play the "figure it out" card and not "coddle" them. That's an approach, but it's not a very effective one. At the very least, tell them what to do, not what not to do.
- knieveltech 11y ago
  I'm having a hard time deciding if this is a troll. In a teaching position I'd agree wholeheartedly, but that's not what's being discussed. You're at work. By definition this means you're supposed to have at least some grasp of what your job duties are and it's a given that stuff outside of your job description is to be left to others unless you're given the go ahead before proceeding. Working a drive-thru, framing houses, industrial fabrication, structural steel work, tech support, professional development, they all have that in common. I certainly should not have to have the conversational equivalent of emailing a team member their job description to remind them to stay on their patch.
  - basseq 11y ago
    Not a troll. I'm playing a little bit of devil's advocate, but I also think this talk of dogs and dinner bowls is rediculous. There's a line here. I've had "busybody" team members who make life difficult for everyone else no matter what you tell them. And my patience quickly wears thin if I have to tell you more than once. But conversely, someone who's going to twiddle their thumbs and not help because "it's not in my job description"... I don't have time for that attitude either, and I won't stand for my team making it the cultural norm. As a senior member of a team, one of your jobs is to develop the more junior people. It is a teaching position: always. If you can't do that, or you think snapping at them "teaches a lesson", it's time to have a conversation about the "senior" in your title. At the end of the day, we're talking about a hypothetical situation. There are exceptions to every rule, but my starting point is, "How can we make this person better?"