3 ms·

Most academic shuttle runs are still at 90nm, or bigger. There are a few reasons for this: cost of runs, cost of tooling (hundreds of k), and the fact that your

Most academic shuttle runs are still at 90nm, or bigger. There are a few reasons for this: cost of runs, cost of tooling (hundreds of k), and the fact that your assumptions about transistor action and modeling are exponentially more complicated at advanced process nodes. Academics also sign NDAs about the processes they use, and can only make certain things available; the most open is probably MOSIS, but that's absolutely no good for advanced nodes. I'd say throw low power and advanced anything out the window, demonstrate a working chip, then look for funding to advance it.

nickpsecurity 11y ago
I'd agree that most runs are at 90nm or above. Yet, the rest is confusing given I have quite a few papers with competitive stuff done at 45-65nm with some at 28 or 32nm. So, why you say forget about it or MOSIS below 90nm if academics are getting working chips done that low?
- analognoise 11y ago
  They sign NDAs for the process and get 100-thousand dollar layout packages for academic prices. If you have a few spare million dollars, you still can't necessarily release a lot of data due to the NDAs - usually they give you models for the processes that are proprietary (and they invested a lot in developing, and so will consider any breach an act of war).
  - LargoLasskhyfv 11y ago
    From my amateurish POV this looks rather peacefully. No Cult of the NDA in sight. Nonetheless too expensive. OTOH, are you aware of the prices mentioned there? http://www.europractice-ic.com/ http://www.europractice-ic.com/ http://www.europractice.stfc.ac.uk/welcome.html http://www.europractice.stfc.ac.uk/welcome.html http://cmp.imag.fr/ http://cmp.imag.fr/ http://cmp.imag.fr/products/ic/?p=prices2014 http://cmp.imag.fr/products/ic/?p=prices2014 http://cmp.imag.fr/products/ic/?p=prices2015 http://cmp.imag.fr/products/ic/?p=prices2015 http://cmp.imag.fr/products/ic/?p=prices2016 http://cmp.imag.fr/products/ic/?p=prices2016 ahh crap..."which are sent to customers upon signature of a Confidentiality and License Agreement" anyways, prices...hope that helps

nickpsecurity 11y ago

I'd agree that most runs are at 90nm or above. Yet, the rest is confusing given I have quite a few papers with competitive stuff done at 45-65nm with some at 28 or 32nm. So, why you say forget about it or MOSIS below 90nm if academics are getting working chips done that low?

analognoise 11y ago
They sign NDAs for the process and get 100-thousand dollar layout packages for academic prices. If you have a few spare million dollars, you still can't necessarily release a lot of data due to the NDAs - usually they give you models for the processes that are proprietary (and they invested a lot in developing, and so will consider any breach an act of war).
- LargoLasskhyfv 11y ago
  From my amateurish POV this looks rather peacefully. No Cult of the NDA in sight. Nonetheless too expensive. OTOH, are you aware of the prices mentioned there? http://www.europractice-ic.com/ http://www.europractice-ic.com/ http://www.europractice.stfc.ac.uk/welcome.html http://www.europractice.stfc.ac.uk/welcome.html http://cmp.imag.fr/ http://cmp.imag.fr/ http://cmp.imag.fr/products/ic/?p=prices2014 http://cmp.imag.fr/products/ic/?p=prices2014 http://cmp.imag.fr/products/ic/?p=prices2015 http://cmp.imag.fr/products/ic/?p=prices2015 http://cmp.imag.fr/products/ic/?p=prices2016 http://cmp.imag.fr/products/ic/?p=prices2016 ahh crap..."which are sent to customers upon signature of a Confidentiality and License Agreement" anyways, prices...hope that helps