8 ms·

Flash Carbon Footprint of NYTimes.com

36 points by giu 17y ago

grinich 17y ago
= 100 Toyota Prius. It's OK to leave that in the title.
- giu 17y ago
  Thanks for the hint. I classified that part of the title as punchline and omitted it, since a) I didn't know how HN would react if I would've added it and b) I didn't want to give too much away in the submission title :)
nir 17y ago
OMG Flash kills the planet too!!! (BTW, wonder what would be the carbon footprint if NYT switches its background to black? All these #ffffff pixels burning bright..)
- kasterma 17y ago
  I distinctly remember claims that for modern monitors the color does not change energy use.
  - meroliph 17y ago
    This is true for LCDs, but plasma TVs consume a lot less on a completely black background as opposed to a completely white one.
  - mey 17y ago
    It depends on the display type. Some displays emit energy based on the intensity of the image (CRT, Plasma). Others always generate light but then mask out the light with a matrix display which typically has a pretty constant energy usage (LCD, Projection). Still others only require energy only when they change (eInk, future color pigmentation eInk variations). And of course power variations in each technology, FL LCD v LED LCD. Older Plasma displays vs newer Plasma displays. The size of the display, (your 52" TV v 3" cellphone) For CRT/Plasma there is also refresh rate to consider... etc etc etc.
    - Dbug 17y ago
      While it generally isn't true of computer displays, some LCD televisions do have slightly reduced power consumption on black. It's not from the LCD shuttering the light from the backlight, but from control electronics reducing the backlight brightness dynamically. Those "dynamic" contrast specifications on some displays are a little misleading. One tends to think of a display having a high contrast figure as being more effective at blocking the light when displaying black (less "Bleed-through"), but they cheat by dimming the backlight. That may result in small bright areas in dark scenes ending up a bit darker than they should be. With all backlit LCDs, lowering the (backlight) brightness setting conserves more energy than having the content dim the same amount. Using the lowest acceptable brightness setting not only saves energy, but extends display life. C.R.T.s usually have the greatest change in power consumption with content brightness shifts, particularly in Trinitron tubes.
  - kqr2 17y ago
    According to google: on flat-panel monitors (already estimated to be 75% of the market), displaying black may actually increase energy usage http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2007/08/is-black-new-green.html http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2007/08/is-black-new-green.ht...
dabeeeenster 17y ago
Be interested to see the power consumption figures on a windows machine as opposed to a mac...
- brutimus 17y ago
  That was my exact thought. I doubt his numbers are even close to accurate as Flash doesn't stress windows machines like it does linux and osx. And given that most NYT users are probably windows users, I'd bet the real statistic would be way lower.
- ff0066mote 17y ago
  I would think it would be lower. It's at least a popular belief, if not completely true, that Mac+flash is slow because of apple's uncooperative behavior, and Linux+flash is slow because adobe doesn't care. See these discussions: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1075440 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1075440 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1139393 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1139393 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1138266 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1138266 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1100189 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1100189
dmillar 17y ago
Would also like to see HTML5/JS data. Or, even animated GIFs.
sp332 17y ago
This article raises a very interesting question: WTH is the plural of Prius? What should the plural be?
- axod 17y ago
  The plural of radius is radii, so I'd assume Prii? (Pronounced Pree-eye) edit: Because someone doesn't think Radii is the plural of Radius :/ From maths.org, CAMBRIDGE UNIVERSITY. http://thesaurus.maths.org/mmkb/entry.html?action=entryByConcept&id=18 http://thesaurus.maths.org/mmkb/entry.html?action=entryByCon... From the BBC, http://www.bbc.co.uk/skillswise/tutors/lessonplans/spelling/rtf/plurals_wsheet.rtf http://www.bbc.co.uk/skillswise/tutors/lessonplans/spelling/... From the Oxford dictionary, http://www.askoxford.com:80/concise_oed/radii?view=uk http://www.askoxford.com:80/concise_oed/radii?view=uk From the Chambers dictionary, http://www.chambersharrap.co.uk/chambers/features/chref/chref.py/main?query=radii&title=21st http://www.chambersharrap.co.uk/chambers/features/chref/chre...
  - codyrobbins 17y ago
    The plural of radius is radiuses, and the plural of Prius is Priuses. I am so tired of comments where people make up ‘funny’ pseudo-Latinate plurals.
    - Semiapies 17y ago
      "Radiuses" is a real, but less-common and less-accepted plural for radius. A quick search and check of references will confirm that. "1 - 10 of about 92,000 for radiuses." "Results 1 - 10 of about 5,700,000 for radii [definition]."
    - EricBurnett 17y ago
      According to every dictionary I can find[1], radii is at least as accepted as radiuses. As for Prius, since it is a made up word the plural is essentially whatever the accepted English usage turns out to be. According to Toyota[2] anything customers want to use is fine, however online the general consensus seems to be that Prius is the plural form as well. I am so tired of comments where people assert their particular view as true without doing any research, especially when trying to correct someone else. [1] See http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Radius http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Radius, for examples. [2] From http://www.greenhybrid.com/wiki/index.php/Interview_with_Ed_LaRocque http://www.greenhybrid.com/wiki/index.php/Interview_with_Ed_... , an interview with a manager at Toyota.
kasterma 17y ago
Anyone any idea how these energy measurements were made?
codyrobbins 17y ago
Except those blinking ads aren’t useless—they bring in substantial amounts of ad revenue for the New York Times. So what is OP’s point, exactly?
- Semiapies 17y ago
  Presumably they'd burn even less fossil fuel if they went out of business.
  - nir 17y ago
    Or at least shut down their website - and, obviously, their even more wasteful print edition.
amadiver 17y ago
I think the article is a bit disingenuous. It's actually finding the carbon footprint of animated banner ads (since the only Flash content on the page right now seems to be a lone video player that does not autoplay). A more interesting test would be a comparison between these Flash ads and their equivalent HTML5/Canvas ads.
mjgoins 17y ago
Can anyone point to why flash is so processor-intensive? Is it a necessary property of doing what flash does, or is flash implemented inefficiently?

36 points by giu 17y ago

grinich 17y ago

= 100 Toyota Prius. It's OK to leave that in the title.

giu 17y ago
Thanks for the hint. I classified that part of the title as punchline and omitted it, since a) I didn't know how HN would react if I would've added it and b) I didn't want to give too much away in the submission title :)

nir 17y ago

OMG Flash kills the planet too!!! (BTW, wonder what would be the carbon footprint if NYT switches its background to black? All these #ffffff pixels burning bright..)

kasterma 17y ago
I distinctly remember claims that for modern monitors the color does not change energy use.
- meroliph 17y ago
  This is true for LCDs, but plasma TVs consume a lot less on a completely black background as opposed to a completely white one.
- mey 17y ago
  It depends on the display type. Some displays emit energy based on the intensity of the image (CRT, Plasma). Others always generate light but then mask out the light with a matrix display which typically has a pretty constant energy usage (LCD, Projection). Still others only require energy only when they change (eInk, future color pigmentation eInk variations). And of course power variations in each technology, FL LCD v LED LCD. Older Plasma displays vs newer Plasma displays. The size of the display, (your 52" TV v 3" cellphone) For CRT/Plasma there is also refresh rate to consider... etc etc etc.
  - Dbug 17y ago
    While it generally isn't true of computer displays, some LCD televisions do have slightly reduced power consumption on black. It's not from the LCD shuttering the light from the backlight, but from control electronics reducing the backlight brightness dynamically. Those "dynamic" contrast specifications on some displays are a little misleading. One tends to think of a display having a high contrast figure as being more effective at blocking the light when displaying black (less "Bleed-through"), but they cheat by dimming the backlight. That may result in small bright areas in dark scenes ending up a bit darker than they should be. With all backlit LCDs, lowering the (backlight) brightness setting conserves more energy than having the content dim the same amount. Using the lowest acceptable brightness setting not only saves energy, but extends display life. C.R.T.s usually have the greatest change in power consumption with content brightness shifts, particularly in Trinitron tubes.
- kqr2 17y ago
  According to google: on flat-panel monitors (already estimated to be 75% of the market), displaying black may actually increase energy usage http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2007/08/is-black-new-green.html http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2007/08/is-black-new-green.ht...

dabeeeenster 17y ago

Be interested to see the power consumption figures on a windows machine as opposed to a mac...

brutimus 17y ago
That was my exact thought. I doubt his numbers are even close to accurate as Flash doesn't stress windows machines like it does linux and osx. And given that most NYT users are probably windows users, I'd bet the real statistic would be way lower.
ff0066mote 17y ago
I would think it would be lower. It's at least a popular belief, if not completely true, that Mac+flash is slow because of apple's uncooperative behavior, and Linux+flash is slow because adobe doesn't care. See these discussions: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1075440 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1075440 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1139393 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1139393 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1138266 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1138266 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1100189 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1100189

dmillar 17y ago

Would also like to see HTML5/JS data. Or, even animated GIFs.

sp332 17y ago

This article raises a very interesting question: WTH is the plural of Prius? What should the plural be?

axod 17y ago
The plural of radius is radii, so I'd assume Prii? (Pronounced Pree-eye) edit: Because someone doesn't think Radii is the plural of Radius :/ From maths.org, CAMBRIDGE UNIVERSITY. http://thesaurus.maths.org/mmkb/entry.html?action=entryByConcept&id=18 http://thesaurus.maths.org/mmkb/entry.html?action=entryByCon... From the BBC, http://www.bbc.co.uk/skillswise/tutors/lessonplans/spelling/rtf/plurals_wsheet.rtf http://www.bbc.co.uk/skillswise/tutors/lessonplans/spelling/... From the Oxford dictionary, http://www.askoxford.com:80/concise_oed/radii?view=uk http://www.askoxford.com:80/concise_oed/radii?view=uk From the Chambers dictionary, http://www.chambersharrap.co.uk/chambers/features/chref/chref.py/main?query=radii&title=21st http://www.chambersharrap.co.uk/chambers/features/chref/chre...
- codyrobbins 17y ago
  The plural of radius is radiuses, and the plural of Prius is Priuses. I am so tired of comments where people make up ‘funny’ pseudo-Latinate plurals.
  - Semiapies 17y ago
    "Radiuses" is a real, but less-common and less-accepted plural for radius. A quick search and check of references will confirm that. "1 - 10 of about 92,000 for radiuses." "Results 1 - 10 of about 5,700,000 for radii [definition]."
  - EricBurnett 17y ago
    According to every dictionary I can find[1], radii is at least as accepted as radiuses. As for Prius, since it is a made up word the plural is essentially whatever the accepted English usage turns out to be. According to Toyota[2] anything customers want to use is fine, however online the general consensus seems to be that Prius is the plural form as well. I am so tired of comments where people assert their particular view as true without doing any research, especially when trying to correct someone else. [1] See http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Radius http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/Radius, for examples. [2] From http://www.greenhybrid.com/wiki/index.php/Interview_with_Ed_LaRocque http://www.greenhybrid.com/wiki/index.php/Interview_with_Ed_... , an interview with a manager at Toyota.

kasterma 17y ago

Anyone any idea how these energy measurements were made?

codyrobbins 17y ago

Except those blinking ads aren’t useless—they bring in substantial amounts of ad revenue for the New York Times. So what is OP’s point, exactly?

Semiapies 17y ago
Presumably they'd burn even less fossil fuel if they went out of business.
- nir 17y ago
  Or at least shut down their website - and, obviously, their even more wasteful print edition.

amadiver 17y ago

I think the article is a bit disingenuous. It's actually finding the carbon footprint of animated banner ads (since the only Flash content on the page right now seems to be a lone video player that does not autoplay). A more interesting test would be a comparison between these Flash ads and their equivalent HTML5/Canvas ads.

mjgoins 17y ago

Can anyone point to why flash is so processor-intensive? Is it a necessary property of doing what flash does, or is flash implemented inefficiently?