5 ms·

This seems to be a case of the "all lives matter" fallacy. It's true that the men-bad-women-good bias is harmful. It just doesn't strike me as worth spending mu

by natrius 11y ago

This seems to be a case of the "all lives matter" fallacy. It's true that the men-bad-women-good bias is harmful. It just doesn't strike me as worth spending much effort on compared to the biases that are making our industry significantly harder for people to succeed in. I'll start paying attention to other issues when I can't remember the last time I worked on a ten person, single gender team of engineers.

belorn 11y ago
Which results in the predictable model where the underlaying causes are ignored, the problem remains, and thus: There is common biases, but we should not keep talking about it if we aren't willing to fix our biases. If you don't want 10 person teams with the same gender, ask yourself this: why has those men being pushed to work there and excluded elsewhere? Why are women being excluded to work there and pushed elsewhere? The Swedish institution of education made a report that noted that as gender roles are being made more equal, work titles has gotten more gendered in the process. The correlation seem to imply that men and women project gender roles onto work as an reaction to having their gender roles being made less distinct in home and society at large. The same report also noted than in 15 years of efforts to get women to take up more male typical classes like engineering, only very minor progress has been made. No efforts (their exact wording) has been made to make men go to areas dominated by women, and the report predict that no major change in gender equality in education is going to occur until both genders starts to compete to get into classes dominated by the other gender. You need to pressure both side at the same time in order for gender lines to break. But again, people aren't really interested to talk about this since it doesn't match current biases. It easier to just assume that men are evil, women victims, and try to fix problems under those assumptions. Next time you say that "There are plenty of things worth discussing", here was a explanation why there won't be a worthwhile discussion.
- nickonline 11y ago
  Do you know what that report is called?
  - belorn 11y ago
    I bookmarked it, and I can post it tomorrow when I get back to that computer.
    - belorn 11y ago
      https://sverigesradio.se/diverse/appdata/isidor/files/95/6180.pdf https://sverigesradio.se/diverse/appdata/isidor/files/95/618... I can strongly recommend page 33 if you don't have time to read the whole thing. If you do have time however, it's references are as significant as the report itself. I also strongly recommend reading some anecdotal stories from people that are minority in professions where the gender inequality is 90%:10% and over.

by natrius 11y ago

belorn 11y ago

Which results in the predictable model where the underlaying causes are ignored, the problem remains, and thus: There is common biases, but we should not keep talking about it if we aren't willing to fix our biases. If you don't want 10 person teams with the same gender, ask yourself this: why has those men being pushed to work there and excluded elsewhere? Why are women being excluded to work there and pushed elsewhere? The Swedish institution of education made a report that noted that as gender roles are being made more equal, work titles has gotten more gendered in the process. The correlation seem to imply that men and women project gender roles onto work as an reaction to having their gender roles being made less distinct in home and society at large. The same report also noted than in 15 years of efforts to get women to take up more male typical classes like engineering, only very minor progress has been made. No efforts (their exact wording) has been made to make men go to areas dominated by women, and the report predict that no major change in gender equality in education is going to occur until both genders starts to compete to get into classes dominated by the other gender. You need to pressure both side at the same time in order for gender lines to break. But again, people aren't really interested to talk about this since it doesn't match current biases. It easier to just assume that men are evil, women victims, and try to fix problems under those assumptions. Next time you say that "There are plenty of things worth discussing", here was a explanation why there won't be a worthwhile discussion.

nickonline 11y ago
Do you know what that report is called?
- belorn 11y ago
  I bookmarked it, and I can post it tomorrow when I get back to that computer.
  - belorn 11y ago
    https://sverigesradio.se/diverse/appdata/isidor/files/95/6180.pdf https://sverigesradio.se/diverse/appdata/isidor/files/95/618... I can strongly recommend page 33 if you don't have time to read the whole thing. If you do have time however, it's references are as significant as the report itself. I also strongly recommend reading some anecdotal stories from people that are minority in professions where the gender inequality is 90%:10% and over.