7 ms·

Do you think it's possible to major in computer science in college if you have absolutely no prior experience in programming?

dietrichepp 11y ago
Absolutely yes, and if it doesn't work at your college then it's a failure of your college.
MawNicker 11y ago
Absolutely yes. But you'll definitely want awareness of the reality the GP presented. The environment you're in is likely to make you dissatisfied with your own performance... at first.
nostrademons 11y ago
Absolutely. A number of my coworkers at Google had never done it before college (and some had never done it until after college, going back to CS as a second career). You have to be okay with being "behind" compared to your peers, but if you'd like to be successful long-term in anything, you need to become okay with that anyway. Fashions change, whatever you were good at before becomes obsolete, and you relearn things. Slope is more important than Y-intercept.
- blaenk 11y ago
  > Slope is more important than Y-intercept. That's nice :)
  - nostrademons 11y ago
    Not my invention. Usually credited to John Ousterhout, although it's been repeated by many: https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-most-profound-life-lessons-from-Stanford-Professor-John-Ousterhout https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-most-profound-life-lesson...
    - kps 11y ago
      I first heard it in the late '80s, in the context of grad school admissions, but perhaps Ousterhout was the first to port it from math to computing.
  - petewailes 11y ago
    I agree with this wholeheartedly. The problem with it is that until you're most of the way towards being at the point where those things meet, it can feel pretty terrible, if you're not mentally good at dealing with being behind. The trick is being able to support those with decent slope while they're still under those who had higher y-intercept so they continue.
    - nostrademons 11y ago
      For a real treat, try replacing a curve that is fundamentally linear (say, optimizing your salary as an employee) with one that is fundamentally exponential but with a much smaller constant factor (say, founding a startup). Not only will you be below the Y-intercept for a considerable period of time, but you will also have a slope that is indistinguishable from zero. This is probably the biggest killer of startups: it doesn't feel like you're making any progress at all, until you have a sufficiently deep picture of your marketplace to know exactly where to hit it that your competitors aren't, and a sufficiently solid product that your customers realize this.
echelon 11y ago
This is a very difficult question. I used to be TA for freshman CS, and there was a marked difference in performance and the time it took to complete labs between those who had been hobbyist programmers and those who had never programmed before. It really seemed like there was a vast chasm between the two groups. While I did see complete newbies making A's, it took them considerable effort. I'm not sure they really groked the concepts at that point in time.
DrJid 11y ago
Yes. I had no programming experience at all. Never written a single line of code nor even touched a Mac. I'm originally from Ghana. And I was able to get an honors in CS. Start a student group to teach other college students to build mobile apps (appdev.grinnell.edu) and get a dream job at a startup here in SF. So yes! Even with zero experience, I'm certain you can kick ass, if you have the willpower
inanutshellus 11y ago
ABSOLUTELY. The trick to it is exactly the point of the original article. You have to not be afraid, and instead interrupt class constantly and ask for explanation. Don't let yourself walk away from even one session with a floating question mark looming over your head. No joke. Don't leave even one class not understanding what was covered.
saghm 11y ago
Definitely yes! I'm currently a senior studying CS. Many of my classmates freshman year had never written a line of code in their life beforehand. Now, some of the best programmers I know at my school are those same people. If you're passionate about it and willing to put in the effort, then I say go for it!
wutbrodo 11y ago
It's more than possible. The first line of code I wrote was second semester freshman year, at one of the top CS programs in the world. Google hired me during my senior year of college (a few years ago) and in my last two years there I've been in an actual computer science oriented role. I won't deny that it was a little unnerving in the beginning that everyone else seemed to have a ten year advantage over me, but that hurdle turned out to be 99% psychological.
bunkat 11y ago
Of course it's possible but it seems a little odd. Programming is something that anybody can do with a very modest investment. If you're interested in programming, seems strange to have absolutely no prior experience before getting to college. It's sort of like deciding to be a music major when you've never played an instrument before. How do you know if you even enjoy it before starting down the long path to getting a degree in it?
- tnecniv 11y ago
  >Programming is something that anybody can do with a very modest investment. Yeah, but most people don't know that. Sure, us nerds figured it out, but most people are shocked that I learned to code at 13. I thought it wasn't that difficult. I don't think I'm smarter than most, I just wasn't scared off by the technical details.
  - bunkat 11y ago
    If you're not technical enough to type 'learn to program' into Google then I'm not sure how far you'll make it into a CS program. Back in the 80's and early 90's, sure it was a struggle. I remember reading out of date BASIC books trying to figure out how to load my code from floppies, now that was a bit of a headache. These days you can be be learning to code using any number of slick web sites in about 5 minutes.
    - slavik81 11y ago
      I tried learning programming quite a few times back in the '00s, but none of it really made sense until I took the intro to programming course in university. I was too focused on my high school academics (and goofing off) to devote enough time to properly learn to program. Once software became a part of my academics, I found that I got much more better explanations of how things fundamentally work. I also finally had more time to practice.
  - deleted 11y ago
    [deleted]
- 11y ago
wyldfire 11y ago
Without a doubt it's possible. Of the people who graduated in my CS class, I'd wager fewer than half of us lived in a home with a computer. What you'll find with many computer science curricula is that the science of computing is so abstract that the simple excel macros and other stuff you've already done and perhaps dismissed is actually "programming."
riyadparvez 11y ago
Absolutely, because I did it.
jkyle 11y ago
I did. Programming oriented courses were my strongest subjects.
grecy 11y ago
Absolutely. Quite a few people in my Software Engineering program had obviously never done anything more advanced than use Microsoft Word on their first day. Heck, while I loved computers, I'd never been dedicated enough to teach myself a programming language. 4 years later I graduated with Highest Honors, and worked for the DOD.
kibwen 11y ago
Let's not forget that the first generations of computer scientists likely had no experience with programming at all before college, due to computers being such expensive rarities.
true_religion 11y ago
Sure. It depends on the program, definitely, but at my university, the CS curriculum was extremely abstract focusing more on logic, algorithms, compilers, basics of hardware processors, language design and software design theory than any practical implementation of the above. In fact, outside of the introduction class, there was never actually a place where they sat down and said "here is where we teach you how to program". The professors mainly taught theory and had the assumption that we'd be able to put it into practice if needed. Luckily we did have lab assignments, and multi-month group projects, so you would pick up some vestiges of professional programming within the 4 years you were there.
sn9 11y ago
How do you think the first computer scientists and programmers learned it? Or, for that matter, anyone who picks up programming? (My own mother started in her late 20s or early 30s on punch cards, having never even touched a computer.) Everyone starts at the same place. And nowadays you don't even have to wait to go to college to have your first brush with programming. The best intro to programming online in my opinion is Harvard's CS50x on edx.org. It's meant to be an introduction to programming for people who've never even written a for-loop. CS50x uses C, but there are plenty of good introductions with other languages. Google Think Python for a free pdf of an introductory programming book that teaches Python and how to think like a programmer. Following that up with Udacity's Intro to CS course is a great way to get your feet wet. There are so many ways to learn and so many places to ask questions when you get stuck. And it's such an intellectually rewarding pursuit! Come join us!
- madaxe_again 11y ago
  Uh, they taught themselves. You think Alan Turing or Ada Lovelace went to college and studied computer science?
  - kjdal2001 11y ago
    He means the first people who studied computer science, not the people who invented it.
    - sn9 11y ago
      Bingo.
jlembeck 11y ago
I did and many of my classmates did as well (graduated in 2010).
fapjacks 11y ago
Absolutely! I have a lifelong friend that didn't pick up programming until his thirties when he just decided on a whim to enroll in computer science. This despite our being friends and my having been a programmer most of my life. He's a great programmer, too!
hobs 11y ago
I imagine the first teachers of programming had the same problem. They are often considered the best and brightest as a result.
thesimpsons1022 11y ago
I had no experience and I ended up interning at a couple good companies (Big Four) and ended up with a Masters degree and a great job.
deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
mfukar 11y ago
Yes. No undergrad CS course assumes prior experience.
taneq 11y ago
Some of the people I went to university with even graduated with absolutely no experience in programming. It was rather disheartening.
Maken 11y ago
Of course. If a university computer science course is unable to teach its students how to program, there is something wrong with the course, not its students.
Cthulhu_ 11y ago
It'll make things more difficult, I think - doubly so if you've missed computers or internet 101 - but not impossible. I have a good colleague (android / web developer) who majored in electronics engineering. Others are self-taught, although that may imply they've been using computers for a long time already. I'd have to ask around for more of such examples.
snowwrestler 11y ago
This might not be a popular opinion here, but computer science is not the hardest discipline that students can major in at college. Physics, biology, chemistry, and pre-med come to mind. How many students majoring in biology or pre-med have personal "hobby" experience before starting college? Probably not many. The fact that so many high schoolers can pick up and become productive at programming is in part evidence that programming is not the most complicated thing in the world.

dietrichepp 11y ago

Absolutely yes, and if it doesn't work at your college then it's a failure of your college.

MawNicker 11y ago

Absolutely yes. But you'll definitely want awareness of the reality the GP presented. The environment you're in is likely to make you dissatisfied with your own performance... at first.

nostrademons 11y ago

Absolutely. A number of my coworkers at Google had never done it before college (and some had never done it until after college, going back to CS as a second career). You have to be okay with being "behind" compared to your peers, but if you'd like to be successful long-term in anything, you need to become okay with that anyway. Fashions change, whatever you were good at before becomes obsolete, and you relearn things. Slope is more important than Y-intercept.

blaenk 11y ago
> Slope is more important than Y-intercept. That's nice :)
- nostrademons 11y ago
  Not my invention. Usually credited to John Ousterhout, although it's been repeated by many: https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-most-profound-life-lessons-from-Stanford-Professor-John-Ousterhout https://www.quora.com/What-are-the-most-profound-life-lesson...
  - kps 11y ago
    I first heard it in the late '80s, in the context of grad school admissions, but perhaps Ousterhout was the first to port it from math to computing.
- petewailes 11y ago
  I agree with this wholeheartedly. The problem with it is that until you're most of the way towards being at the point where those things meet, it can feel pretty terrible, if you're not mentally good at dealing with being behind. The trick is being able to support those with decent slope while they're still under those who had higher y-intercept so they continue.
  - nostrademons 11y ago
    For a real treat, try replacing a curve that is fundamentally linear (say, optimizing your salary as an employee) with one that is fundamentally exponential but with a much smaller constant factor (say, founding a startup). Not only will you be below the Y-intercept for a considerable period of time, but you will also have a slope that is indistinguishable from zero. This is probably the biggest killer of startups: it doesn't feel like you're making any progress at all, until you have a sufficiently deep picture of your marketplace to know exactly where to hit it that your competitors aren't, and a sufficiently solid product that your customers realize this.

echelon 11y ago

This is a very difficult question. I used to be TA for freshman CS, and there was a marked difference in performance and the time it took to complete labs between those who had been hobbyist programmers and those who had never programmed before. It really seemed like there was a vast chasm between the two groups. While I did see complete newbies making A's, it took them considerable effort. I'm not sure they really groked the concepts at that point in time.

DrJid 11y ago

Yes. I had no programming experience at all. Never written a single line of code nor even touched a Mac. I'm originally from Ghana. And I was able to get an honors in CS. Start a student group to teach other college students to build mobile apps (appdev.grinnell.edu) and get a dream job at a startup here in SF. So yes! Even with zero experience, I'm certain you can kick ass, if you have the willpower

inanutshellus 11y ago

ABSOLUTELY. The trick to it is exactly the point of the original article. You have to not be afraid, and instead interrupt class constantly and ask for explanation. Don't let yourself walk away from even one session with a floating question mark looming over your head. No joke. Don't leave even one class not understanding what was covered.

saghm 11y ago

Definitely yes! I'm currently a senior studying CS. Many of my classmates freshman year had never written a line of code in their life beforehand. Now, some of the best programmers I know at my school are those same people. If you're passionate about it and willing to put in the effort, then I say go for it!

wutbrodo 11y ago

It's more than possible. The first line of code I wrote was second semester freshman year, at one of the top CS programs in the world. Google hired me during my senior year of college (a few years ago) and in my last two years there I've been in an actual computer science oriented role. I won't deny that it was a little unnerving in the beginning that everyone else seemed to have a ten year advantage over me, but that hurdle turned out to be 99% psychological.

bunkat 11y ago

Of course it's possible but it seems a little odd. Programming is something that anybody can do with a very modest investment. If you're interested in programming, seems strange to have absolutely no prior experience before getting to college. It's sort of like deciding to be a music major when you've never played an instrument before. How do you know if you even enjoy it before starting down the long path to getting a degree in it?

tnecniv 11y ago
>Programming is something that anybody can do with a very modest investment. Yeah, but most people don't know that. Sure, us nerds figured it out, but most people are shocked that I learned to code at 13. I thought it wasn't that difficult. I don't think I'm smarter than most, I just wasn't scared off by the technical details.
- bunkat 11y ago
  If you're not technical enough to type 'learn to program' into Google then I'm not sure how far you'll make it into a CS program. Back in the 80's and early 90's, sure it was a struggle. I remember reading out of date BASIC books trying to figure out how to load my code from floppies, now that was a bit of a headache. These days you can be be learning to code using any number of slick web sites in about 5 minutes.
  - slavik81 11y ago
    I tried learning programming quite a few times back in the '00s, but none of it really made sense until I took the intro to programming course in university. I was too focused on my high school academics (and goofing off) to devote enough time to properly learn to program. Once software became a part of my academics, I found that I got much more better explanations of how things fundamentally work. I also finally had more time to practice.
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
11y ago

wyldfire 11y ago

Without a doubt it's possible. Of the people who graduated in my CS class, I'd wager fewer than half of us lived in a home with a computer. What you'll find with many computer science curricula is that the science of computing is so abstract that the simple excel macros and other stuff you've already done and perhaps dismissed is actually "programming."

riyadparvez 11y ago

Absolutely, because I did it.

jkyle 11y ago

I did. Programming oriented courses were my strongest subjects.

grecy 11y ago

Absolutely. Quite a few people in my Software Engineering program had obviously never done anything more advanced than use Microsoft Word on their first day. Heck, while I loved computers, I'd never been dedicated enough to teach myself a programming language. 4 years later I graduated with Highest Honors, and worked for the DOD.

kibwen 11y ago

Let's not forget that the first generations of computer scientists likely had no experience with programming at all before college, due to computers being such expensive rarities.

true_religion 11y ago

Sure. It depends on the program, definitely, but at my university, the CS curriculum was extremely abstract focusing more on logic, algorithms, compilers, basics of hardware processors, language design and software design theory than any practical implementation of the above. In fact, outside of the introduction class, there was never actually a place where they sat down and said "here is where we teach you how to program". The professors mainly taught theory and had the assumption that we'd be able to put it into practice if needed. Luckily we did have lab assignments, and multi-month group projects, so you would pick up some vestiges of professional programming within the 4 years you were there.

sn9 11y ago

How do you think the first computer scientists and programmers learned it? Or, for that matter, anyone who picks up programming? (My own mother started in her late 20s or early 30s on punch cards, having never even touched a computer.) Everyone starts at the same place. And nowadays you don't even have to wait to go to college to have your first brush with programming. The best intro to programming online in my opinion is Harvard's CS50x on edx.org. It's meant to be an introduction to programming for people who've never even written a for-loop. CS50x uses C, but there are plenty of good introductions with other languages. Google Think Python for a free pdf of an introductory programming book that teaches Python and how to think like a programmer. Following that up with Udacity's Intro to CS course is a great way to get your feet wet. There are so many ways to learn and so many places to ask questions when you get stuck. And it's such an intellectually rewarding pursuit! Come join us!

madaxe_again 11y ago
Uh, they taught themselves. You think Alan Turing or Ada Lovelace went to college and studied computer science?
- kjdal2001 11y ago
  He means the first people who studied computer science, not the people who invented it.
  - sn9 11y ago
    Bingo.

jlembeck 11y ago

I did and many of my classmates did as well (graduated in 2010).

fapjacks 11y ago

Absolutely! I have a lifelong friend that didn't pick up programming until his thirties when he just decided on a whim to enroll in computer science. This despite our being friends and my having been a programmer most of my life. He's a great programmer, too!

hobs 11y ago

I imagine the first teachers of programming had the same problem. They are often considered the best and brightest as a result.

thesimpsons1022 11y ago

I had no experience and I ended up interning at a couple good companies (Big Four) and ended up with a Masters degree and a great job.

deleted 11y ago

[deleted]

mfukar 11y ago

Yes. No undergrad CS course assumes prior experience.

taneq 11y ago

Some of the people I went to university with even graduated with absolutely no experience in programming. It was rather disheartening.

Maken 11y ago

Of course. If a university computer science course is unable to teach its students how to program, there is something wrong with the course, not its students.

Cthulhu_ 11y ago

It'll make things more difficult, I think - doubly so if you've missed computers or internet 101 - but not impossible. I have a good colleague (android / web developer) who majored in electronics engineering. Others are self-taught, although that may imply they've been using computers for a long time already. I'd have to ask around for more of such examples.

snowwrestler 11y ago

This might not be a popular opinion here, but computer science is not the hardest discipline that students can major in at college. Physics, biology, chemistry, and pre-med come to mind. How many students majoring in biology or pre-med have personal "hobby" experience before starting college? Probably not many. The fact that so many high schoolers can pick up and become productive at programming is in part evidence that programming is not the most complicated thing in the world.