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Does plugging in a third party code completion engine really make this an IDE? Do I get cross file variable/method/class name refactoring? Do I get runtime code

Does plugging in a third party code completion engine really make this an IDE? Do I get cross file variable/method/class name refactoring? Do I get runtime code debugging including stack inspection and breakpoints? Do I get test suite integration? Atom itself is a text editor, not a code editor, which is why I'm asking if this set of functionality crosses that distinction line. If Atom is capable of being a true IDE (code editor) then that would be big news.

groovy2shoes 11y ago
I agree. The difference between an IDE and a text editor is absolutely not that an IDE has more advanced editing capabilities (e.g., code completion). In fact, it's quite the opposite, in that most programmers' text editors provide far more sophisticated editing capabilities than a typical IDE. What sets the IDE apart is right in the name: integrated development environment. That is, everything you need for development all rolled up into a single integrated environment (hopefully, this is obvious). So, an IDE ought to provide not just editing capabilities, but facilities for managing, configuring, building, running, testing, debugging, etc.
rootlocus 11y ago
+1 for debugging. I believe an IDE with strong debugging support will go a long way towards rust world domination!
- yitchelle 11y ago
  Can't upvote this comment enough. I have just started learning rust and the lack of debugging options are telling. I know it is early days for rust, but for some, this would be show stopper from picking up the language.
  - bluejekyll 11y ago
    The lldb works well and has a gui mode, until a better ide comes along.
  - zubspace 11y ago
    I don't have any experience programming rust. So, how do Mozilla devs create something like servo? I know, you can get quite far with a text editor and something like gdb, but after using Visual Studio for far too long, falling back to the commandline gets kinda.. old?
    - pcwalton 11y ago
      I use LLDB. A lot of Firefox developers don't use Visual Studio for debugging, even though it's an option. Some of us just prefer command line debuggers. That said, it would definitely be nice to support Visual Studio debugging, and we're in a position to benefit from all the hard work upstream LLVM is doing to support it.
akerro 11y ago
No, but it's written in JavaScript so.. ALL YAY! Why are people wasting time on such "IDEs"?
- deleted 11y ago
  [deleted]
- sdesol 11y ago
  From what I've gathered so far, IDEs are suppose to be like crack. If you get them addicted to your stuff, you'll be able to convert them to paying customers for other things down the road. Considering the resources that GitHub and Microsoft are throwing at atom and vscode, I do buy into this premise a bit. I'm as baffled as you are, but I'm definitely not their target audience, as I'm content with vim and a terminal. If somebody can point me to some research papers on this, I would love to learn more about this phenomenon.
  - akerro 11y ago
    > I would love to learn more about this phenomenon. I think it's just what cool kids use these days. Development costs are low, so you get what you pay for.
_pmf_ 11y ago
> Does plugging in a third party code completion engine really make this an IDE If developers assume that displaying a web page in a container is a valid strategy for developing an editor, this is a small step.
krisdol 11y ago
Seeing as I don't leave the editor to test, compile, run, and, of course, write code, it's an IDE for me. You get syntax highlighting, linting, code completion, definition lookup, and cargo integration, but that still doesn't make it a code editor in your book? It doesn't have all the features of IDEA but I don't draw the line there.
- KMag 11y ago
  > but that still doesn't make it a code editor in your book? The GP isn't saying this isn't a code editor. The GP is making a distinction between a code editor and an integrated development environment. The GP's definition of IDE is integrating editing, building, testing, debugging, etc.
  - krisdol 11y ago
    From the GP: > Atom itself is a text editor, not a code editor, which is why I'm asking if this set of functionality crosses that distinction line. If Atom is capable of being a true IDE (code editor) then that would be big news. And like I said, I consider Atom a rust IDE for the mentioned reasons

groovy2shoes 11y ago

I agree. The difference between an IDE and a text editor is absolutely not that an IDE has more advanced editing capabilities (e.g., code completion). In fact, it's quite the opposite, in that most programmers' text editors provide far more sophisticated editing capabilities than a typical IDE. What sets the IDE apart is right in the name: integrated development environment. That is, everything you need for development all rolled up into a single integrated environment (hopefully, this is obvious). So, an IDE ought to provide not just editing capabilities, but facilities for managing, configuring, building, running, testing, debugging, etc.

rootlocus 11y ago

+1 for debugging. I believe an IDE with strong debugging support will go a long way towards rust world domination!

yitchelle 11y ago
Can't upvote this comment enough. I have just started learning rust and the lack of debugging options are telling. I know it is early days for rust, but for some, this would be show stopper from picking up the language.
- bluejekyll 11y ago
  The lldb works well and has a gui mode, until a better ide comes along.
- zubspace 11y ago
  I don't have any experience programming rust. So, how do Mozilla devs create something like servo? I know, you can get quite far with a text editor and something like gdb, but after using Visual Studio for far too long, falling back to the commandline gets kinda.. old?
  - pcwalton 11y ago
    I use LLDB. A lot of Firefox developers don't use Visual Studio for debugging, even though it's an option. Some of us just prefer command line debuggers. That said, it would definitely be nice to support Visual Studio debugging, and we're in a position to benefit from all the hard work upstream LLVM is doing to support it.

akerro 11y ago

No, but it's written in JavaScript so.. ALL YAY! Why are people wasting time on such "IDEs"?

deleted 11y ago
[deleted]
sdesol 11y ago
From what I've gathered so far, IDEs are suppose to be like crack. If you get them addicted to your stuff, you'll be able to convert them to paying customers for other things down the road. Considering the resources that GitHub and Microsoft are throwing at atom and vscode, I do buy into this premise a bit. I'm as baffled as you are, but I'm definitely not their target audience, as I'm content with vim and a terminal. If somebody can point me to some research papers on this, I would love to learn more about this phenomenon.
- akerro 11y ago
  > I would love to learn more about this phenomenon. I think it's just what cool kids use these days. Development costs are low, so you get what you pay for.

_pmf_ 11y ago

> Does plugging in a third party code completion engine really make this an IDE If developers assume that displaying a web page in a container is a valid strategy for developing an editor, this is a small step.

krisdol 11y ago

Seeing as I don't leave the editor to test, compile, run, and, of course, write code, it's an IDE for me. You get syntax highlighting, linting, code completion, definition lookup, and cargo integration, but that still doesn't make it a code editor in your book? It doesn't have all the features of IDEA but I don't draw the line there.

KMag 11y ago
> but that still doesn't make it a code editor in your book? The GP isn't saying this isn't a code editor. The GP is making a distinction between a code editor and an integrated development environment. The GP's definition of IDE is integrating editing, building, testing, debugging, etc.
- krisdol 11y ago
  From the GP: > Atom itself is a text editor, not a code editor, which is why I'm asking if this set of functionality crosses that distinction line. If Atom is capable of being a true IDE (code editor) then that would be big news. And like I said, I consider Atom a rust IDE for the mentioned reasons