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> With advanced autopilot tech I think this is reasonable No, it isn't. We've allowed people to mess with the brakes of a car for over a century and the world

by maratd 11y ago

> With advanced autopilot tech I think this is reasonable No, it isn't. We've allowed people to mess with the brakes of a car for over a century and the world hasn't come to an end.

dforrestwilson1 11y ago
What about the likelihood of electrocution? A friend who is an auto mechanic told me previously that hybrid cars are by nature, more dangerous to work on.
- ball_of_lint 11y ago
  If you can self service the battery, then you can obviously remove it, and with no source of power there should be no real risk of electrocution
  - AnimalMuppet 11y ago
    Can you self-service the battery on an electric or hybrid car? I'd be mildly surprised if you could. (Of course, I never actually thought about the question before...)
    - koenigdavidmj 11y ago
      It's not supported but is possible. Someone on here replaced a single damaged cell on a Prius, whereas the dealer would only offer to replace the whole bank (which costs $5000).
    - avs733 11y ago
      for scoping purposes, I own a volt There are two batteries: 1) normal 12V battery (in the trunk under the floor I believe) 2) the large 'main' battery which The 12V is absolutely user replaceable. Wonderfully, they even provide jump lugs under the hood in normal locations. The main battery is under the rear seat and the center console between the passenger and drive sides seats. I haven't messed with that one...not going to bother until the warranty is gone.
    - Avenger42 11y ago
      A few months ago, my father and I replaced the fans inside the battery on my '05 Ford Escape hybrid. Ended up saving me about $1k in labor costs.
  - Kadin 11y ago
    Wouldn't really even need to "service" the battery. It would be pretty easy to add a "master disconnect switch" or some other type of service switch, close to the battery, that cuts off power to the rest of the car. I would be surprised if the manufacturers don't build something like that in already, just because it makes the car safer to assemble. (Wiring up a high-current battery pack to a bunch of electronics can be... fun... if there's not a cutoff close to the battery. You end up with a pretty good-sized arc in some cases even with the other electronics 'off'.) The Prius has an emergency disconnect under the hood that can be accessed by emergency personnel / firefighters, although I believe it's destructive to operate. (It's a "cut here in emergency" sort of thing, at least on the older ones.) I could see having a standardized service disconnect switch, or at least standardized signage or switch appearance, on electric/hybrid cars as a safety thing, not just for roadside emergencies but also for maintenance.
  - kec 11y ago
    The main battery in most hybrids is on the order of 400VDC which isn't nearly enough to electrocute you in anything but ideal conditions. The real risk is accidentally shorting the battery which would cause it to explode.
    - jacquesm 11y ago
      400V DC is pretty dangerous. I wouldn't mess with it without taking serious precautions. (But I would mess with it...)
    - mnw21cam 11y ago
      400VDC is absolutely plenty to kill someone very quickly indeed.
      - deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
    - thebakeshow 11y ago
      Its not the volts that will kill you, its the amps
  - ashitlerferad 11y ago
    What about capacitors?
- oxryly1 11y ago
  Next we'll allow people to access the high voltage wires inside their houses... where does it end?
  - elmin 11y ago
    In some countries (Australia for one) it is illegal to do electrical work on your house if you're not a licenced electrician. I don't agree with that, but it is a position some people take clearly.
    - oxryly1 11y ago
      I imagine that even in Australia high voltage lines are exposed to laypeople via electrical sockets, with naught to protect the novice but being inset in some plastic. In any case the idea of finding (or even sympathizing with) reasons to prevent owners from accessing their cars' inner functionality rubs me exactly the wrong way.
    - ghaff 11y ago
      That's interesting. The viral Australian "Dumb Ways to Die" video [1] from a couple of years back by Metro Trains Melbourne included a snippet about "doing your own electrical work" which seemed rather incongruous to me as a fairly typical American with a house who doesn't think twice about swapping light switches and such. (Especially given the popular image of self-reliant Australians and all that--however atypical sheep and cattle stations may be of the average resident.) I guess that's the reason. [1] http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2012/nov/28/dumb-ways-to-die-video http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2012/nov/28/dumb-ways...
      - taneq 11y ago
        The counterpoint to the "self-reliant Australian" image is the fact that historically the Australian government has been very protectionist about local markets and trades. There are strong trade unions that have lobbied to keep non-trade-qualified people from doing basic maintenance - hell, it's technically illegal to do your own plumbing: http://www.licensedtrades.com.au/licensed/plumbers http://www.licensedtrades.com.au/licensed/plumbers (Edit: As in, it's not just illegal to plumb your entire house. It's illegal to replace a tap.)
userbinator 11y ago
In fact, checking the brake pads should be part of everyone's pre-drive walkaround (does anyone do this regularly? I do, at least.) Replacing them yourself isn't so hard either. On the other hand, I'm not so sure about how hard it is to check and maintain an autopilot system...
- DannoHung 11y ago
  Can you explain what you mean by checking your brake pads?
  - dsfyu404ed 11y ago
    Making sure they aren't too worn. Brake pads have "wear indicators" in them for just that reason and have for decades. You know that squeal/squeaking sound worn brakes make? That's wear indicators doing their job.
    - DannoHung 11y ago
      Yeah, but how does he check that on a walkaround?
      - userbinator 11y ago
        It's not possible on all models but if your wheels are "open" enough that you can see the pads through them, it's pretty easy to see how much material is left with just a quick glance.

by maratd 11y ago

> With advanced autopilot tech I think this is reasonable No, it isn't. We've allowed people to mess with the brakes of a car for over a century and the world hasn't come to an end.

dforrestwilson1 11y ago

What about the likelihood of electrocution? A friend who is an auto mechanic told me previously that hybrid cars are by nature, more dangerous to work on.

ball_of_lint 11y ago
If you can self service the battery, then you can obviously remove it, and with no source of power there should be no real risk of electrocution
- AnimalMuppet 11y ago
  Can you self-service the battery on an electric or hybrid car? I'd be mildly surprised if you could. (Of course, I never actually thought about the question before...)
  - koenigdavidmj 11y ago
    It's not supported but is possible. Someone on here replaced a single damaged cell on a Prius, whereas the dealer would only offer to replace the whole bank (which costs $5000).
  - avs733 11y ago
    for scoping purposes, I own a volt There are two batteries: 1) normal 12V battery (in the trunk under the floor I believe) 2) the large 'main' battery which The 12V is absolutely user replaceable. Wonderfully, they even provide jump lugs under the hood in normal locations. The main battery is under the rear seat and the center console between the passenger and drive sides seats. I haven't messed with that one...not going to bother until the warranty is gone.
  - Avenger42 11y ago
    A few months ago, my father and I replaced the fans inside the battery on my '05 Ford Escape hybrid. Ended up saving me about $1k in labor costs.
- Kadin 11y ago
  Wouldn't really even need to "service" the battery. It would be pretty easy to add a "master disconnect switch" or some other type of service switch, close to the battery, that cuts off power to the rest of the car. I would be surprised if the manufacturers don't build something like that in already, just because it makes the car safer to assemble. (Wiring up a high-current battery pack to a bunch of electronics can be... fun... if there's not a cutoff close to the battery. You end up with a pretty good-sized arc in some cases even with the other electronics 'off'.) The Prius has an emergency disconnect under the hood that can be accessed by emergency personnel / firefighters, although I believe it's destructive to operate. (It's a "cut here in emergency" sort of thing, at least on the older ones.) I could see having a standardized service disconnect switch, or at least standardized signage or switch appearance, on electric/hybrid cars as a safety thing, not just for roadside emergencies but also for maintenance.
- kec 11y ago
  The main battery in most hybrids is on the order of 400VDC which isn't nearly enough to electrocute you in anything but ideal conditions. The real risk is accidentally shorting the battery which would cause it to explode.
  - jacquesm 11y ago
    400V DC is pretty dangerous. I wouldn't mess with it without taking serious precautions. (But I would mess with it...)
  - mnw21cam 11y ago
    400VDC is absolutely plenty to kill someone very quickly indeed.
    - deleted 11y ago
      [deleted]
  - thebakeshow 11y ago
    Its not the volts that will kill you, its the amps
- ashitlerferad 11y ago
  What about capacitors?
oxryly1 11y ago
Next we'll allow people to access the high voltage wires inside their houses... where does it end?
- elmin 11y ago
  In some countries (Australia for one) it is illegal to do electrical work on your house if you're not a licenced electrician. I don't agree with that, but it is a position some people take clearly.
  - oxryly1 11y ago
    I imagine that even in Australia high voltage lines are exposed to laypeople via electrical sockets, with naught to protect the novice but being inset in some plastic. In any case the idea of finding (or even sympathizing with) reasons to prevent owners from accessing their cars' inner functionality rubs me exactly the wrong way.
  - ghaff 11y ago
    That's interesting. The viral Australian "Dumb Ways to Die" video [1] from a couple of years back by Metro Trains Melbourne included a snippet about "doing your own electrical work" which seemed rather incongruous to me as a fairly typical American with a house who doesn't think twice about swapping light switches and such. (Especially given the popular image of self-reliant Australians and all that--however atypical sheep and cattle stations may be of the average resident.) I guess that's the reason. [1] http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2012/nov/28/dumb-ways-to-die-video http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2012/nov/28/dumb-ways...
    - taneq 11y ago
      The counterpoint to the "self-reliant Australian" image is the fact that historically the Australian government has been very protectionist about local markets and trades. There are strong trade unions that have lobbied to keep non-trade-qualified people from doing basic maintenance - hell, it's technically illegal to do your own plumbing: http://www.licensedtrades.com.au/licensed/plumbers http://www.licensedtrades.com.au/licensed/plumbers (Edit: As in, it's not just illegal to plumb your entire house. It's illegal to replace a tap.)

userbinator 11y ago

In fact, checking the brake pads should be part of everyone's pre-drive walkaround (does anyone do this regularly? I do, at least.) Replacing them yourself isn't so hard either. On the other hand, I'm not so sure about how hard it is to check and maintain an autopilot system...

DannoHung 11y ago
Can you explain what you mean by checking your brake pads?
- dsfyu404ed 11y ago
  Making sure they aren't too worn. Brake pads have "wear indicators" in them for just that reason and have for decades. You know that squeal/squeaking sound worn brakes make? That's wear indicators doing their job.
  - DannoHung 11y ago
    Yeah, but how does he check that on a walkaround?
    - userbinator 11y ago
      It's not possible on all models but if your wheels are "open" enough that you can see the pads through them, it's pretty easy to see how much material is left with just a quick glance.