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Well, not that much, but still very expensive. https://service.teslamotors.com/ https://service.teslamotors.com/ $30/hour, and various other pricings up to $3

Well, not that much, but still very expensive. https://service.teslamotors.com/ https://service.teslamotors.com/ $30/hour, and various other pricings up to $3000/year. The latter is probably feasible for an independent service shop, but none of this would ever work for an individual.

smitherfield 11y ago
Thanks for doing the research! (The $10,000 figure was intentional hyperbole, but I knew it was very high). It's probably infeasible for anyone, even a business. To be able to invest $3,000/year for a Tesla service manual you need to have the know-how to repair Teslas, and to have the know-how you need to have the service manual. Chicken-and-egg problem. So, in practice, a "right to repair" Teslas for individuals or businesses will have to wait for if and when the manual hits torrent sites. Not that I blame them for not wanting amateurs attempting to repair their bleeding-edge high-tech gizmos with explosive batteries.
- gamache 11y ago
  $3000 is a new set of wrenches. Definitely not nothing, but very much achievable for even a small car shop.
  - CapitalistCartr 11y ago
    I use wrenches on every car. To invest in Tesla-specific tools, I have to believe I will have enough Tesla traffic to justify it. Which at present doesn't happen. So an owner wanting to tinker quite simply can't.
    - chc 11y ago
      An owner wanting to tinker presumably doesn't care about market demand for their tinkering, so why can't they? It's not like $250/mo is prohibitive to somebody who wants to tinker with their $100,000 luxury car.
  - foota 11y ago
    Based on what I think car repair costs, just a couple of Teslas a year seems like it would be enough to justify the expense.
- chc 11y ago
  I don't see where you believe there is a "checken-and-egg problem." You do not need to know how to repair Teslas in order to invest $3000 a year in a Tesla service manual. All you need is $3000 and the expectation that you'll be able to put the things you learn from the manual into practice.
  - smitherfield 11y ago
    Well, you don't know that Teslas are even repairable. Perhaps they only sell/provide certain replacement parts or software keys to Tesla stores.
    - justinlardinois 11y ago
      And what, the $30/hour manual is just a one page list of phone numbers and email addresses to contact?
      - smitherfield 11y ago
        Nah, just that the materials or tools necessary to perform the services or repairs it describes might not be available to the public.
    - dsfyu404ed 11y ago
      There's no way they can make a car in which the normal wear item's aren't used elsewhere. A Tesla would cost double if all the parts were built specifically for them. You might have a problem finding control arms and body panels if you're not a shop but I'm betting tie rod ends, wiper motor/arms, wheel bearings and brake parts are all common parts or very close to existing, common parts. The CVs and steering rack are probably hybrids made from existing components in the supplier's inventory but specifically assembled in that way for Tesla's application. SpaceX makes a point of using off the shelf parts where possible to reduce cost. I would be downright surprised if Tesla didn't do the same. It's in the best interest of any low volume manufacturer to use off the shelf parts wherever possible. The lower the volume the more this is true. For example, one of the higher end Toyotas (I forget if it's the Avalon or Solara) uses the same Bose sound system as a handful of Maseratis. Some Rolls-Royces use a smallblock Chevy starter motor. The Dana 44 rear axle as been in everything from pickup to luxury sedans to Zambonis to forklifts. A part is a part, an assembly is an assembly. If exactly what you want isn't out there already then you work with the manufacturer to have it made. You don't reinvent the wheel unless you have a very good reason.
- pcl 11y ago
  As time goes on, current repair technicians at Tesla will leave the company, and some of them may be interested in servicing Tesla vehicles. They'll have all the baseline knowledge and training that they need; this provides them with the ongoing access they'd need to perform their jobs. Now, Massachusetts has relatively employer-biased noncompete laws, but that may change over time, and certainly people from other states could move to Massachusetts.
  - smitherfield 11y ago
    Fair enough. :) I think you might draw a distinction, however: A former BMW (same price space as Tesla) repair tech probably has the know-how to repair future BMW models (or cars in general), because internal-combustion cars are a very mature technology (at least where there are moving parts). On the other hand a former Apple repair tech would probably have a lot less confidence in their ability to repair future iPhones and iPads, which are relatively new and rapidly-changing technologies. I think that it's very possible Teslas are more like iPhones than they are like ordinary cars. You could even make the case that electric cars are a less mature, faster-changing technology even compared to smartphones.

smitherfield 11y ago

Thanks for doing the research! (The $10,000 figure was intentional hyperbole, but I knew it was very high). It's probably infeasible for anyone, even a business. To be able to invest $3,000/year for a Tesla service manual you need to have the know-how to repair Teslas, and to have the know-how you need to have the service manual. Chicken-and-egg problem. So, in practice, a "right to repair" Teslas for individuals or businesses will have to wait for if and when the manual hits torrent sites. Not that I blame them for not wanting amateurs attempting to repair their bleeding-edge high-tech gizmos with explosive batteries.

gamache 11y ago
$3000 is a new set of wrenches. Definitely not nothing, but very much achievable for even a small car shop.
- CapitalistCartr 11y ago
  I use wrenches on every car. To invest in Tesla-specific tools, I have to believe I will have enough Tesla traffic to justify it. Which at present doesn't happen. So an owner wanting to tinker quite simply can't.
  - chc 11y ago
    An owner wanting to tinker presumably doesn't care about market demand for their tinkering, so why can't they? It's not like $250/mo is prohibitive to somebody who wants to tinker with their $100,000 luxury car.
- foota 11y ago
  Based on what I think car repair costs, just a couple of Teslas a year seems like it would be enough to justify the expense.
chc 11y ago
I don't see where you believe there is a "checken-and-egg problem." You do not need to know how to repair Teslas in order to invest $3000 a year in a Tesla service manual. All you need is $3000 and the expectation that you'll be able to put the things you learn from the manual into practice.
- smitherfield 11y ago
  Well, you don't know that Teslas are even repairable. Perhaps they only sell/provide certain replacement parts or software keys to Tesla stores.
  - justinlardinois 11y ago
    And what, the $30/hour manual is just a one page list of phone numbers and email addresses to contact?
    - smitherfield 11y ago
      Nah, just that the materials or tools necessary to perform the services or repairs it describes might not be available to the public.
  - dsfyu404ed 11y ago
    There's no way they can make a car in which the normal wear item's aren't used elsewhere. A Tesla would cost double if all the parts were built specifically for them. You might have a problem finding control arms and body panels if you're not a shop but I'm betting tie rod ends, wiper motor/arms, wheel bearings and brake parts are all common parts or very close to existing, common parts. The CVs and steering rack are probably hybrids made from existing components in the supplier's inventory but specifically assembled in that way for Tesla's application. SpaceX makes a point of using off the shelf parts where possible to reduce cost. I would be downright surprised if Tesla didn't do the same. It's in the best interest of any low volume manufacturer to use off the shelf parts wherever possible. The lower the volume the more this is true. For example, one of the higher end Toyotas (I forget if it's the Avalon or Solara) uses the same Bose sound system as a handful of Maseratis. Some Rolls-Royces use a smallblock Chevy starter motor. The Dana 44 rear axle as been in everything from pickup to luxury sedans to Zambonis to forklifts. A part is a part, an assembly is an assembly. If exactly what you want isn't out there already then you work with the manufacturer to have it made. You don't reinvent the wheel unless you have a very good reason.
pcl 11y ago
As time goes on, current repair technicians at Tesla will leave the company, and some of them may be interested in servicing Tesla vehicles. They'll have all the baseline knowledge and training that they need; this provides them with the ongoing access they'd need to perform their jobs. Now, Massachusetts has relatively employer-biased noncompete laws, but that may change over time, and certainly people from other states could move to Massachusetts.
- smitherfield 11y ago
  Fair enough. :) I think you might draw a distinction, however: A former BMW (same price space as Tesla) repair tech probably has the know-how to repair future BMW models (or cars in general), because internal-combustion cars are a very mature technology (at least where there are moving parts). On the other hand a former Apple repair tech would probably have a lot less confidence in their ability to repair future iPhones and iPads, which are relatively new and rapidly-changing technologies. I think that it's very possible Teslas are more like iPhones than they are like ordinary cars. You could even make the case that electric cars are a less mature, faster-changing technology even compared to smartphones.