4 ms·

>> Down Syndrome [0] .. are they worth hiring at $2.00/hour? Yes, and they and their families are willing for them to work at that wage, because there are huge

by petra 11y ago

>> Down Syndrome [0] .. are they worth hiring at $2.00/hour? Yes, and they and their families are willing for them to work at that wage, because there are huge benefits to being productively employed. Realistically, for people with disabilities that aren't being able to be in the regular labor market, there are some societal useful things to do, like volunteering(say in a soup kitchen), helping their community,etc. Those are probably activities that wouldn't be done otherwise, carry a real sense of value, and usually in a custom fit environment. That is the situation at least in enlightened places with decent government services. I'm not sure about the US. I wouldn't want that to be replaced with people at the margin being exploited at a shitty factory , where the work is meaningless and often depression inducing, sometimes risky, etc.

Overtonwindow 11y ago
I think the federal government and the states should reduce the tax burden on corporations that hire the disabled. For every disabled person you hire, your tax bill is lowered that much more. If 15% of your workforce is physically or mentally disabled, your state tax is zero. That would incentivize corporations to hire more disabled.
- kough 11y ago
  All you're arguing is for a decrease in the cost of hiring from a specific labor pool, which is exactly what the government has already done by allowing companies to hire disabled workers for below the minimum wage.
- tamana 11y ago
  Why bother? Corporations can hire the abled, and government can support the disabled. If disabled are the only available workforce and a corporation needs work done, corporations can pay the disabled (high) market rates. And, you know, of they are doing useful work, maybe they aren't relevantly "disabled" to deserve a lower wage
  - AlgorithmicTime 11y ago
    Work can be both useful and not worth minimum wage. It's easy to imagine that the job of folding boxes would be cheaper to automate at $9 per hour, but at $4 it makes sense to higher someone to do it instead.
ksenzee 11y ago
I don't know exactly how you're picturing the US, but it's not as dystopian as you seem to think. We do in fact have soup kitchens and volunteer opportunities and people with Down's Syndrome who contribute meaningfully to their communities. (What we don't have a lot of anymore are factories. Go figure.)
- petra 11y ago
  Didn't mean to offend anybody, but just by hearing about a lot of mentally ill people being homeless in the US, i got a bad impression. But i may be wrong. And it's not necessary a factory. It's not hard to create awful work environments.
  - kefka 11y ago
    Unfortunately a great deal of our mentally ill are in prison/jail. Back in the 70's and prior, mental health facilities were barbaric. "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" brought to light these travesties, and many were shut down. Later, republicans then shut down more by defunding as well. What effectively happens is people are shunted to other communities where better services are offered. Lookup "Greyhound therapy", where city govt's pay for bus service to 'somewhere else'. Now, the primary caregiver is the penal system. And remember, we still do not have single-payer medical, so unemployed/homeless are still without.
    - germinalphrase 11y ago
      Geraldo Rivera broke into news casting - and won a Peabody - due his reporting on neglect/abuse at the Willowbrook State a School on Staten Island. The video has a horror, flashlight-in-the-dark feel and people reacted strongly. I react strongly. Robert Kennedy even spoke spoke out in public against the facility (his sister suffered a bad lobotomy requiring full time care). Many kinds of institutions closed in the 1970's, and for good reasons.
  - fizzbatter 11y ago
    I think you have the right impression, fwiw. We typically view hardship and punishment as primary concerns, rather than rehabilitation - regardless of the underlying cause. In otherwords, we like to punish for drugs, instead of treating the underlying cause for the drug use. We punish crime, rather than educating and empowering the individuals to not feel the need to commit crime acts. With that said though, mentally ill homeless can be a challenging problem. Many of these ill "fell through the cracks", and even if a program was offered for them, they don't have the capability to seek out said program. Mental health is a definite dark spot in America.
erroneousfunk 11y ago
That's sort of how it works in the US, with a caveat. My SO runs a group home for intellectually disabled adults. Most of them are able to work for less than minimum wage, and they learn basic money management skills, have a checking account, and are able to buy "extras" like iPads and more expensive clothing, or tickets to concerts/events (all their basic needs are met already). When they aren't able to work, it's usually because they're extremely disruptive, unable to cope in a work environment, and/or profoundly disabled, and volunteering in a soup kitchen/helping the community in lieu of "a job" probably isn't going to work out so well. It would be more of a burden and resource cost to have them monitored and supported than the benefit received by the organization. Instead, they go to day programs that have job training (if possible), therapy, and more one-on-one support in a dedicated environment. Volunteering is definitely available if they want to do that, and are able to, but it's not really a "oh, if they can't make money, we'll have them work for free" type of situation.

by petra 11y ago

Overtonwindow 11y ago

I think the federal government and the states should reduce the tax burden on corporations that hire the disabled. For every disabled person you hire, your tax bill is lowered that much more. If 15% of your workforce is physically or mentally disabled, your state tax is zero. That would incentivize corporations to hire more disabled.

kough 11y ago
All you're arguing is for a decrease in the cost of hiring from a specific labor pool, which is exactly what the government has already done by allowing companies to hire disabled workers for below the minimum wage.
tamana 11y ago
Why bother? Corporations can hire the abled, and government can support the disabled. If disabled are the only available workforce and a corporation needs work done, corporations can pay the disabled (high) market rates. And, you know, of they are doing useful work, maybe they aren't relevantly "disabled" to deserve a lower wage
- AlgorithmicTime 11y ago
  Work can be both useful and not worth minimum wage. It's easy to imagine that the job of folding boxes would be cheaper to automate at $9 per hour, but at $4 it makes sense to higher someone to do it instead.

ksenzee 11y ago

I don't know exactly how you're picturing the US, but it's not as dystopian as you seem to think. We do in fact have soup kitchens and volunteer opportunities and people with Down's Syndrome who contribute meaningfully to their communities. (What we don't have a lot of anymore are factories. Go figure.)

petra 11y ago
Didn't mean to offend anybody, but just by hearing about a lot of mentally ill people being homeless in the US, i got a bad impression. But i may be wrong. And it's not necessary a factory. It's not hard to create awful work environments.
- kefka 11y ago
  Unfortunately a great deal of our mentally ill are in prison/jail. Back in the 70's and prior, mental health facilities were barbaric. "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest" brought to light these travesties, and many were shut down. Later, republicans then shut down more by defunding as well. What effectively happens is people are shunted to other communities where better services are offered. Lookup "Greyhound therapy", where city govt's pay for bus service to 'somewhere else'. Now, the primary caregiver is the penal system. And remember, we still do not have single-payer medical, so unemployed/homeless are still without.
  - germinalphrase 11y ago
    Geraldo Rivera broke into news casting - and won a Peabody - due his reporting on neglect/abuse at the Willowbrook State a School on Staten Island. The video has a horror, flashlight-in-the-dark feel and people reacted strongly. I react strongly. Robert Kennedy even spoke spoke out in public against the facility (his sister suffered a bad lobotomy requiring full time care). Many kinds of institutions closed in the 1970's, and for good reasons.
- fizzbatter 11y ago
  I think you have the right impression, fwiw. We typically view hardship and punishment as primary concerns, rather than rehabilitation - regardless of the underlying cause. In otherwords, we like to punish for drugs, instead of treating the underlying cause for the drug use. We punish crime, rather than educating and empowering the individuals to not feel the need to commit crime acts. With that said though, mentally ill homeless can be a challenging problem. Many of these ill "fell through the cracks", and even if a program was offered for them, they don't have the capability to seek out said program. Mental health is a definite dark spot in America.

erroneousfunk 11y ago

That's sort of how it works in the US, with a caveat. My SO runs a group home for intellectually disabled adults. Most of them are able to work for less than minimum wage, and they learn basic money management skills, have a checking account, and are able to buy "extras" like iPads and more expensive clothing, or tickets to concerts/events (all their basic needs are met already). When they aren't able to work, it's usually because they're extremely disruptive, unable to cope in a work environment, and/or profoundly disabled, and volunteering in a soup kitchen/helping the community in lieu of "a job" probably isn't going to work out so well. It would be more of a burden and resource cost to have them monitored and supported than the benefit received by the organization. Instead, they go to day programs that have job training (if possible), therapy, and more one-on-one support in a dedicated environment. Volunteering is definitely available if they want to do that, and are able to, but it's not really a "oh, if they can't make money, we'll have them work for free" type of situation.