4 ms·

Pycon 2010 Keynote: Everyone at a startup should code from CEO to Secretary

18 points by replicatorblog 17y ago

j_baker 17y ago
As much as I like the idea, let's be realistic. How many secretaries are out there with coding chops? (full disclosure: I didn't read it all the way through. I could very well have missed something)
- lsc 17y ago
  I hire such people. Now, usually they either think of themselves as a secretary or as a programmer, and sometimes feel put upon when asked to take the other role, but I think it's completely realistic (and a good idea) to populate your company entirely with people who can at least handle simple scripting languages. It is more expensive, either in terms of time (you /can/ find that diamond in the rough college student who is super organised and a reasonable coder and willing to work for $15/hr, but you have to spend a lot of time looking, and usually kiss a few frogs, and the person will leave for better wages as soon as others notice they are good.) or in terms of salary (anyone who can program reasonably well really is worth quite a bit more than that.)
- replicatorblog 17y ago
  Very few if you think of them in "Mad Men" era terms. However, consider that 30% of Stanford's Law class can't get a job and what that means for good schools and students further down the ranks. There is a surplus of talent that is happy to "Run Ops" at an early stage startup for a reasonable wage. Finding someone to deal with VistaPrint for business cards, set up Zoho, and write a simple script isn't impossible. It doesn't work at a 1,000 person company but 20 guys in a loft? sure.
junklight 17y ago
Now I am sure this keynote was just trying to be provocative and make people think but: Really? Seriously? You think that other skills - sales, marketing , financial , even secretarial type things require the same kind of thinking , the same kind of people as programming. And you also think that someone that can program will either a) be happy doing a completely different job than their skill set or b) be worth using as a developer if their main skill is sales , marketing etc. Now I am sure you can find the odd person who is a brilliant sales person (for example) and a great developer - but why? I don't want my sales people cutting code I want them selling stuff. There is a phrase "jack of all trades, master of none" - sounds like the kind of people you will end up with
- lsc 17y ago
  sounds to me like he's talking about simple stuff that is related to your work, like a sales guy who can understand how analytics works, and make changes to HTML, etc... if you are selling over the web, e.g. a product that costs a small amount per user, nearly all your marketing is going to consist of writing and analytics, so a salesguy who can't handle that sort of thing is of limited utility. (of course, if you are selling a high dollar product with face to face sales, this is different.)
- replicatorblog 17y ago
  Regarding that phrase there is a last line, usually forgotten: "Jack of all trades, master of none, though often times better than a master of one" http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-jack-of-all-trades.htm http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-jack-of-all-trades.htm I don't think it is just provocation. He is talking about <20 person start ups for the most part. The example of a sales person being able to run custom analytics is a good example. At 20 people I don't think it is weird to expect a sales guy to be able to format an HTML email or have an engineer go on a sales call. There needs to be some multiple hat wearing for the venture to succeed.
mikeryan 17y ago
The flip side of this is every programmer should understand sales, marketing, pr, product management, project management and client services.
- jnoller 17y ago
  Which he mentions in the actual keynote
revorad 17y ago
This is hilarious in context of the other posts about programmers not knowing how to program.

As much as I like the idea, let's be realistic. How many secretaries are out there with coding chops? (full disclosure: I didn't read it all the way through. I could very well have missed something)

lsc 17y ago
I hire such people. Now, usually they either think of themselves as a secretary or as a programmer, and sometimes feel put upon when asked to take the other role, but I think it's completely realistic (and a good idea) to populate your company entirely with people who can at least handle simple scripting languages. It is more expensive, either in terms of time (you /can/ find that diamond in the rough college student who is super organised and a reasonable coder and willing to work for $15/hr, but you have to spend a lot of time looking, and usually kiss a few frogs, and the person will leave for better wages as soon as others notice they are good.) or in terms of salary (anyone who can program reasonably well really is worth quite a bit more than that.)
replicatorblog 17y ago
Very few if you think of them in "Mad Men" era terms. However, consider that 30% of Stanford's Law class can't get a job and what that means for good schools and students further down the ranks. There is a surplus of talent that is happy to "Run Ops" at an early stage startup for a reasonable wage. Finding someone to deal with VistaPrint for business cards, set up Zoho, and write a simple script isn't impossible. It doesn't work at a 1,000 person company but 20 guys in a loft? sure.

junklight 17y ago

Now I am sure this keynote was just trying to be provocative and make people think but: Really? Seriously? You think that other skills - sales, marketing , financial , even secretarial type things require the same kind of thinking , the same kind of people as programming. And you also think that someone that can program will either a) be happy doing a completely different job than their skill set or b) be worth using as a developer if their main skill is sales , marketing etc. Now I am sure you can find the odd person who is a brilliant sales person (for example) and a great developer - but why? I don't want my sales people cutting code I want them selling stuff. There is a phrase "jack of all trades, master of none" - sounds like the kind of people you will end up with

lsc 17y ago
sounds to me like he's talking about simple stuff that is related to your work, like a sales guy who can understand how analytics works, and make changes to HTML, etc... if you are selling over the web, e.g. a product that costs a small amount per user, nearly all your marketing is going to consist of writing and analytics, so a salesguy who can't handle that sort of thing is of limited utility. (of course, if you are selling a high dollar product with face to face sales, this is different.)
replicatorblog 17y ago
Regarding that phrase there is a last line, usually forgotten: "Jack of all trades, master of none, though often times better than a master of one" http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-jack-of-all-trades.htm http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-a-jack-of-all-trades.htm I don't think it is just provocation. He is talking about <20 person start ups for the most part. The example of a sales person being able to run custom analytics is a good example. At 20 people I don't think it is weird to expect a sales guy to be able to format an HTML email or have an engineer go on a sales call. There needs to be some multiple hat wearing for the venture to succeed.

mikeryan 17y ago

The flip side of this is every programmer should understand sales, marketing, pr, product management, project management and client services.

jnoller 17y ago
Which he mentions in the actual keynote

revorad 17y ago

This is hilarious in context of the other posts about programmers not knowing how to program.