8 ms·

They can easily fix this. If they don't, it speaks volumes about how Nest/Google/Alphabets values customer relationships. Take all the other google services and

by fezz 11y ago

They can easily fix this. If they don't, it speaks volumes about how Nest/Google/Alphabets values customer relationships. Take all the other google services and imagine what would happen if google were just as reckless, especially with long life products like home installed devices. Home automation installation services or even contractors would also be cautious about Nest.

josh2600 11y ago
Empathy is not a core competency of google as an enterprise.
fucking_tragedy 11y ago
I see it as an extension of their consumer software policy. Have little to no customer service, even when money is involved, letting products stagnate for years and frequently pulling the plug on services. Which is scary, because this hardware is dependent on Google-owned software and services.
click170 11y ago
These shenanigans by Google and the numerous reports of the problems with Nest and their smoke detectors have basically guaranteed I don't include Google devices in my home automation setup. I would rather manually muck around with a raspberry pi and some random sensors bought online than rely on a Google product at this point. There's a lot of room for a vendor to come in with open products, a pledge to maintain that open-ness, and decent integration to really take over the home automation market. I really feel like all the existing products are too proprietary to be of any interest to us home automation geeks.
- ocdtrekkie 11y ago
  Yeah, unfortunately, there's a huge middle ground not being tackled. I use INSTEON devices, which are proprietary, but can only interface outside through my PC's serial adapter (or a cloud hub, which I obviously didn't buy). I want consumer-quality switches and such in my house, so this was the obvious choice. But then the open source hardware stuff is almost entirely limited to 'build it yourself' boards. And sure, I could buy some Arduino and Raspberry Pi hardware (I actually have a lot of it lying around) and spend a bunch of time working on it, but then it wouldn't be a nice wall unit like my switches I have. There's a huge open space here. It's a market just asking for someone to step in and make products.
  - sokoloff 11y ago
    I have ALC (On-Q/Legrand) switches for the same reason. Hard-wired control, but reasonably nice (at least not clown) looking and operating switches in manual mode.
    - ocdtrekkie 11y ago
      That's a key thing too that things like Wi-Fi lightbulbs and crud can't offer: Your light switch should still ALWAYS work like an ordinary light switch!
jasonlaramburu 11y ago
Companies sunset SAAS products (with subscription fees, one time setup fees etc) all the time when the cost to support them becomes too high, growth stalls etc. Clearly Alphabet/Nest could have done a better job of customer service and offered users a partial refund or discount on a replacement product. That said, is it realistic to expect a company to support a software service indefinitely (when the business case no longer makes sense), just because it's tied to a piece of physical hardware that you paid $199 for a few years ago?
- ars 11y ago
  > when the business case no longer makes sense Doing this kills ALL future business of this type. Who would buy such a device knowing this could happen? Unless they don't plan on making consumer appliances anymore.
  - jasonlaramburu 11y ago
    I'm not saying it's an ideal outcome for a company to sunset a product, but why is the consumer expectation so different for pure software vs a connected hardware device (i.e. software + hardware)? Consumers experience sunk cost when any product gets sunset, whether it's hardware or not.
    - mrrsm 11y ago
      Hardware has that upfront cost which consumers take as this should work for x amount of time. In the case of electronics I would hope they last a significant amount of time. If my hardware can work still at least give me a way to write my own code for it or use it as is with the "cloud" portions disabled/removed. If I get a new cell phone my old one doesn't need to become a paperweight because the carrier isn't pushing out updates. I can still use it as is or update it myself.
      - jasonlaramburu 11y ago
        >Hardware has that upfront cost which consumers take as this should work for x amount of time. What is X?
awqrre 11y ago
After Google purchased Dropcam, they censored a thread about it's inability to save video feeds locally.
partiallypro 11y ago
Google has always had poor customer service, this is nothing new. Most of their (profitable) product lines don't need customer service representation, so they don't care about it.
ocdtrekkie 11y ago
It needs to be understood that home automation appliances are going to be assumed to be long-life products. Nobody thinks about their light switch being an old version and needing to be replaced. I'd say any home automation installer should be very wary of Silicon Valley-based automation "services", and focus on robust products which have been available for a long time.
- bitJericho 11y ago
  I've done such installations. The simple solution is to use Honeywell products. It's good stuff that works as intended. The downside is its not even in the same ballpark as modern google/amazon/startup type devices. The customer gets what the customer wants so if someone wants ultra modern then conservatively designed products don't fly. Best advice is to vote with your wallet and stop trusting google products.
  - jpindar 11y ago
    Good point. My Hue lights work without an internet connection, and can be controlled from a device on my local network. And they are also made by an old-school company, Phillips.
    - ocdtrekkie 11y ago
      There's ups and downs to Hue. If you recall earlier they tried axing out support for third party bulbs from their app. But they also deserve some kudos for basing their app and devices on a open platform to begin with.
      - jpindar 11y ago
        Yes, but once people protested, they admitted their mistake and reverted it. AFAIK their position now is that they won't go out of their way to support third party bulbs unless the manufacturer joins their "friends of Hue" program, but their hub firmware isn't blocking them and should work with other bulbs that meet certain specs.
gutnor 11y ago
Home Automation is still niche. They probably hope to make up on the volume. It does not matter how badly they treat their current customer: if they find the iPhone of home automation, they will have hundred of millions of customers to make up for it. They probably hope the guy will find the next big thing. That's more Google working internally as a VC in markets to be. Not that I think it is alright from such an established business like Google.

by fezz 11y ago

josh2600 11y ago

Empathy is not a core competency of google as an enterprise.

fucking_tragedy 11y ago

I see it as an extension of their consumer software policy. Have little to no customer service, even when money is involved, letting products stagnate for years and frequently pulling the plug on services. Which is scary, because this hardware is dependent on Google-owned software and services.

click170 11y ago

These shenanigans by Google and the numerous reports of the problems with Nest and their smoke detectors have basically guaranteed I don't include Google devices in my home automation setup. I would rather manually muck around with a raspberry pi and some random sensors bought online than rely on a Google product at this point. There's a lot of room for a vendor to come in with open products, a pledge to maintain that open-ness, and decent integration to really take over the home automation market. I really feel like all the existing products are too proprietary to be of any interest to us home automation geeks.

ocdtrekkie 11y ago
Yeah, unfortunately, there's a huge middle ground not being tackled. I use INSTEON devices, which are proprietary, but can only interface outside through my PC's serial adapter (or a cloud hub, which I obviously didn't buy). I want consumer-quality switches and such in my house, so this was the obvious choice. But then the open source hardware stuff is almost entirely limited to 'build it yourself' boards. And sure, I could buy some Arduino and Raspberry Pi hardware (I actually have a lot of it lying around) and spend a bunch of time working on it, but then it wouldn't be a nice wall unit like my switches I have. There's a huge open space here. It's a market just asking for someone to step in and make products.
- sokoloff 11y ago
  I have ALC (On-Q/Legrand) switches for the same reason. Hard-wired control, but reasonably nice (at least not clown) looking and operating switches in manual mode.
  - ocdtrekkie 11y ago
    That's a key thing too that things like Wi-Fi lightbulbs and crud can't offer: Your light switch should still ALWAYS work like an ordinary light switch!

jasonlaramburu 11y ago

Companies sunset SAAS products (with subscription fees, one time setup fees etc) all the time when the cost to support them becomes too high, growth stalls etc. Clearly Alphabet/Nest could have done a better job of customer service and offered users a partial refund or discount on a replacement product. That said, is it realistic to expect a company to support a software service indefinitely (when the business case no longer makes sense), just because it's tied to a piece of physical hardware that you paid $199 for a few years ago?

ars 11y ago
> when the business case no longer makes sense Doing this kills ALL future business of this type. Who would buy such a device knowing this could happen? Unless they don't plan on making consumer appliances anymore.
- jasonlaramburu 11y ago
  I'm not saying it's an ideal outcome for a company to sunset a product, but why is the consumer expectation so different for pure software vs a connected hardware device (i.e. software + hardware)? Consumers experience sunk cost when any product gets sunset, whether it's hardware or not.
  - mrrsm 11y ago
    Hardware has that upfront cost which consumers take as this should work for x amount of time. In the case of electronics I would hope they last a significant amount of time. If my hardware can work still at least give me a way to write my own code for it or use it as is with the "cloud" portions disabled/removed. If I get a new cell phone my old one doesn't need to become a paperweight because the carrier isn't pushing out updates. I can still use it as is or update it myself.
    - jasonlaramburu 11y ago
      >Hardware has that upfront cost which consumers take as this should work for x amount of time. What is X?

awqrre 11y ago

After Google purchased Dropcam, they censored a thread about it's inability to save video feeds locally.

partiallypro 11y ago

Google has always had poor customer service, this is nothing new. Most of their (profitable) product lines don't need customer service representation, so they don't care about it.

ocdtrekkie 11y ago

It needs to be understood that home automation appliances are going to be assumed to be long-life products. Nobody thinks about their light switch being an old version and needing to be replaced. I'd say any home automation installer should be very wary of Silicon Valley-based automation "services", and focus on robust products which have been available for a long time.

bitJericho 11y ago
I've done such installations. The simple solution is to use Honeywell products. It's good stuff that works as intended. The downside is its not even in the same ballpark as modern google/amazon/startup type devices. The customer gets what the customer wants so if someone wants ultra modern then conservatively designed products don't fly. Best advice is to vote with your wallet and stop trusting google products.
- jpindar 11y ago
  Good point. My Hue lights work without an internet connection, and can be controlled from a device on my local network. And they are also made by an old-school company, Phillips.
  - ocdtrekkie 11y ago
    There's ups and downs to Hue. If you recall earlier they tried axing out support for third party bulbs from their app. But they also deserve some kudos for basing their app and devices on a open platform to begin with.
    - jpindar 11y ago
      Yes, but once people protested, they admitted their mistake and reverted it. AFAIK their position now is that they won't go out of their way to support third party bulbs unless the manufacturer joins their "friends of Hue" program, but their hub firmware isn't blocking them and should work with other bulbs that meet certain specs.

gutnor 11y ago

Home Automation is still niche. They probably hope to make up on the volume. It does not matter how badly they treat their current customer: if they find the iPhone of home automation, they will have hundred of millions of customers to make up for it. They probably hope the guy will find the next big thing. That's more Google working internally as a VC in markets to be. Not that I think it is alright from such an established business like Google.