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I think it's going to prove far, far harder to replace trucks than buses and cars with EVs The economics don't stack up today for long-distance EV trucking, bu

I think it's going to prove far, far harder to replace trucks than buses and cars with EVs The economics don't stack up today for long-distance EV trucking, but it's quite possible that they will in a decade or so, with ongoing incremental improvements in battery costs and energy density. The limitations now are cost and infrastructure, not technology. If we imagine, say, an HGV with a 500kWh battery pack then it should be able to haul a typical load for hundreds of miles between charges. Fast chargers can be installed at existing truck stops. HGV drivers in Europe are legally required to take rest periods every 4.5 hours (and can drive for a maximum of 9 hours per day), so stopping for charging on a similar schedule would not have much impact on existing work practices. 350kWh packs are already being used today for double-decker busses in London, which can run all day without recharging. So 500kWh (or more?) packs in HGVs are not unrealistic. The only exceptional case I can think of is extreme long-haul trucking in remote, off-grid locations (think Australian Outback, or Ice Road Truckers). Those may be the last hold-outs for fossil fuelled vehicles.

anexprogrammer 11y ago
I think the best solution involves evoluton of the delivery network, so maybe EV haulage is closer than I think.. An EV light truck is perfect for the final delivery to home or shop, and doubly so in congested inner cities with pollution charges, like London. I could be wrong, but I thought the London Routemasters were hybrids? HGV delivery might evolve to a combination of more rail, longhaul diesel HGVs and EV light trucks, or even full EV HGVs where the range is lower. Like making several supermarket drops in a city. Whatever way you look at it, we're already making excellent, and suprisingly quick, progress.
- Reason077 11y ago
  The "New Routemaster" busses are indeed diesel-electric hybrids, but London is also now testing new fully electric double deckers: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/world-s-first-electric-double-decker-bus-london-a6934646.html http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/wor... We already see a few EV delivery vans around (Nissan have one based on the Leaf technology). They need to get a bit bigger and have longer range before they'll start replacing all the diesel vans, but we are indeed making progress. There's various problems with using intermodal rail for things like supermarket deliveries, though, at least in the UK. It's not really compatible with the just-in-time model that supermarkets and other retailers operate, where the supermarket places an order every day based on their real-time sales data which is fulfilled overnight from their large regional distribution centres. Consider a shift from truckloads of goods to intermodal container loads: you'd be going truck-rail-truck, with all the inefficiencies of transferring between modes. You'd need intermodal freight depots on the outskirts of cities, shunting yards, etc which just don't exist any more. You wouldn't actually be cutting down on city traffic, since the same number of local trips would need to be made anyway. And the distances involved from distribution centre to supermarket are usually relatively short, so there just isn't a huge fuel saving to be made in using rail.
VLM 11y ago
Refrigerated trailers powered by a separate on board diesel engine have been a thing for decades... attaching a small gen to a small charger that supplies more long term average KW than the truck needs, turns an electric truck into a hybrid, for those ice road guys. I would not be surprised to see something on a small scale for u-haul type rental where a rental trailer would come with a small gas generator and a SAE J1772 charger connector on a cord giving you infinite moderate speed range, or at least infinite until 100 miles after you run out of gas. Possibly people would rent those trailers to travel long distances even if they have nothing to actually carry, just to get infinite range. For most of the population, traveling very long distances is very unusual. Renting trailers is a COTS business model, ditto renting generators, and even the business model of renting medium size building contractor generators mounted on a trailer. Other than adding a weather proof fairing, a larger gas tank, and a COTS plug in EV charger, there's nothing obscure about this fairly obvious future business model. You might need a software update for the car, so the car understands its safe to drive away with the charger cord still attached.

anexprogrammer 11y ago

I think the best solution involves evoluton of the delivery network, so maybe EV haulage is closer than I think.. An EV light truck is perfect for the final delivery to home or shop, and doubly so in congested inner cities with pollution charges, like London. I could be wrong, but I thought the London Routemasters were hybrids? HGV delivery might evolve to a combination of more rail, longhaul diesel HGVs and EV light trucks, or even full EV HGVs where the range is lower. Like making several supermarket drops in a city. Whatever way you look at it, we're already making excellent, and suprisingly quick, progress.

Reason077 11y ago
The "New Routemaster" busses are indeed diesel-electric hybrids, but London is also now testing new fully electric double deckers: http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/world-s-first-electric-double-decker-bus-london-a6934646.html http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/gadgets-and-tech/wor... We already see a few EV delivery vans around (Nissan have one based on the Leaf technology). They need to get a bit bigger and have longer range before they'll start replacing all the diesel vans, but we are indeed making progress. There's various problems with using intermodal rail for things like supermarket deliveries, though, at least in the UK. It's not really compatible with the just-in-time model that supermarkets and other retailers operate, where the supermarket places an order every day based on their real-time sales data which is fulfilled overnight from their large regional distribution centres. Consider a shift from truckloads of goods to intermodal container loads: you'd be going truck-rail-truck, with all the inefficiencies of transferring between modes. You'd need intermodal freight depots on the outskirts of cities, shunting yards, etc which just don't exist any more. You wouldn't actually be cutting down on city traffic, since the same number of local trips would need to be made anyway. And the distances involved from distribution centre to supermarket are usually relatively short, so there just isn't a huge fuel saving to be made in using rail.

VLM 11y ago

Refrigerated trailers powered by a separate on board diesel engine have been a thing for decades... attaching a small gen to a small charger that supplies more long term average KW than the truck needs, turns an electric truck into a hybrid, for those ice road guys. I would not be surprised to see something on a small scale for u-haul type rental where a rental trailer would come with a small gas generator and a SAE J1772 charger connector on a cord giving you infinite moderate speed range, or at least infinite until 100 miles after you run out of gas. Possibly people would rent those trailers to travel long distances even if they have nothing to actually carry, just to get infinite range. For most of the population, traveling very long distances is very unusual. Renting trailers is a COTS business model, ditto renting generators, and even the business model of renting medium size building contractor generators mounted on a trailer. Other than adding a weather proof fairing, a larger gas tank, and a COTS plug in EV charger, there's nothing obscure about this fairly obvious future business model. You might need a software update for the car, so the car understands its safe to drive away with the charger cord still attached.