4 ms·

100 devices per square meter is normal in tall-ish buildings. Each apartment has 2-3 phones. Offices are even more packed.

icebraining 11y ago
Maybe I'm miscalculating, but I think you're off by an order of magnitude. According to [1], a dense open space office in Manhattan has 100-120ft² per employee; let's take 108ft² which is ~= 10m². That means each m² has ~1/10 of an employee. Even if you multiply by 100 floors, you're only getting ~10 employees/m². [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/23/nyregion/as-office-space-shrinks-so-does-privacy-for-workers.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/23/nyregion/as-office-space-s...
- veidr 11y ago
  I think your miscalculation might be devices per person, not people per square meter. My desk area in Tokyo (so maybe not 120ft²; let's call it 60ft²) has a whole lot more devices than people. 4 computers + personal/work phones + 1 watch + 3 tablets + wireless camera + let's say 5 other random items with an IP address that might be paying a visit (think health/fitness devices, teledildonics, wifi-enabled geiger counters, etc.). I may not be typical in April 2016, but I'm also not that much of an outlier. 10+ devices per person seems to be the direction we are heading, so... at 100 floors, yeah 100+ devices per square meter.
  - icebraining 11y ago
    While I do think you're an outlier, remember that we're specifically talking about 5G-enabled devices. "Wifi-enabled geiger counters" don't really, er, count :)
  - coldtea 11y ago
    >I may not be typical in April 2016, but I'm also not that much of an outlier. 10+ devices per person seems to be the direction we are heading, so... at 100 floors, yeah 100+ devices per square meter. Not sure where you get this "100 devices per square meter" again. Even if it was 10+ devices per person (which is at best 3 or 4), there are hardly more than 1 or 2 persons per square meter still. And across floors there are one or several meters of empty space -- above people's heads and before the ceiling.
    - veidr 11y ago
      Well, the example I was replying to was for a 100-story building, with a total of ~10 employees/m². I think this absurdly specific hypothetical building is getting in the way my point, which is simply that we humans have an increasing number of networked devices on and around us, and ~10 devices is already common for some people.
      - coldtea 11y ago
        >Well, the example I was replying to was for a 100-story building, with a total of ~10 employees/m². Across 100+ meters of height? I don't think that's what people intuitively understand/mean when they talk about "devices/m²". It's not like a device on the 15th floor messes with another on the 5th floor...
        veidr 11y ago
        Yeah, I know, but that's the specific calculation I was replying to — icebraining's figure of people per square meter of land. This subthread veered off from the original linked post about broadband speed in general to discuss how upcoming "5G" cellular service is expected[1] to support 100 devices per square meter - that means per square meter of coverage area, regardless of how many floors are stacked up on that square meter. E.g., Mbps/m². [1]: http://spectrum.ieee.org/telecom/wireless/telecom-experts-plot-a-path-to-5g http://spectrum.ieee.org/telecom/wireless/telecom-experts-pl...

icebraining 11y ago

Maybe I'm miscalculating, but I think you're off by an order of magnitude. According to [1], a dense open space office in Manhattan has 100-120ft² per employee; let's take 108ft² which is ~= 10m². That means each m² has ~1/10 of an employee. Even if you multiply by 100 floors, you're only getting ~10 employees/m². [1] http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/23/nyregion/as-office-space-shrinks-so-does-privacy-for-workers.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2015/02/23/nyregion/as-office-space-s...

veidr 11y ago
I think your miscalculation might be devices per person, not people per square meter. My desk area in Tokyo (so maybe not 120ft²; let's call it 60ft²) has a whole lot more devices than people. 4 computers + personal/work phones + 1 watch + 3 tablets + wireless camera + let's say 5 other random items with an IP address that might be paying a visit (think health/fitness devices, teledildonics, wifi-enabled geiger counters, etc.). I may not be typical in April 2016, but I'm also not that much of an outlier. 10+ devices per person seems to be the direction we are heading, so... at 100 floors, yeah 100+ devices per square meter.
- icebraining 11y ago
  While I do think you're an outlier, remember that we're specifically talking about 5G-enabled devices. "Wifi-enabled geiger counters" don't really, er, count :)
- coldtea 11y ago
  >I may not be typical in April 2016, but I'm also not that much of an outlier. 10+ devices per person seems to be the direction we are heading, so... at 100 floors, yeah 100+ devices per square meter. Not sure where you get this "100 devices per square meter" again. Even if it was 10+ devices per person (which is at best 3 or 4), there are hardly more than 1 or 2 persons per square meter still. And across floors there are one or several meters of empty space -- above people's heads and before the ceiling.
  - veidr 11y ago
    Well, the example I was replying to was for a 100-story building, with a total of ~10 employees/m². I think this absurdly specific hypothetical building is getting in the way my point, which is simply that we humans have an increasing number of networked devices on and around us, and ~10 devices is already common for some people.
    - coldtea 11y ago
      >Well, the example I was replying to was for a 100-story building, with a total of ~10 employees/m². Across 100+ meters of height? I don't think that's what people intuitively understand/mean when they talk about "devices/m²". It's not like a device on the 15th floor messes with another on the 5th floor...
      - veidr 11y ago
        Yeah, I know, but that's the specific calculation I was replying to — icebraining's figure of people per square meter of land. This subthread veered off from the original linked post about broadband speed in general to discuss how upcoming "5G" cellular service is expected[1] to support 100 devices per square meter - that means per square meter of coverage area, regardless of how many floors are stacked up on that square meter. E.g., Mbps/m². [1]: http://spectrum.ieee.org/telecom/wireless/telecom-experts-plot-a-path-to-5g http://spectrum.ieee.org/telecom/wireless/telecom-experts-pl...