4 ms·

> dumping ground for second hand phones Why the negative phrasing? What is wrong with reuse? Would it be any difference if the phones were new? Is it an enviro

by geon 11y ago

> dumping ground for second hand phones Why the negative phrasing? What is wrong with reuse? Would it be any difference if the phones were new? Is it an environmental issue?

DanBC 11y ago
Personally, I don't think this is going to happen with these Apple phones. (Although I'd be interested to see what happens with security updates; and how easy they are to use with local languages.) But. There have been considerable environmental problems with companies dumping e-waste on developing world countries. Sometimes this e-waste is described as "used, low cost computing equipment", sometimes it's described as "recyclable waste". Either of those sound fine. When I hear them I think of a small local co-op fixing the computers and installing free software and distributing them to schools or whatnot. Or of people dismantling and sorting the stuff, and recycling for cash. What actually happens is something like the e-waste dump in Agbogbloshie, Accra, Ghana. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00sch78 http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00sch78 http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2013/dec/14/toxic-ewaste-illegal-dumping-developing-countries http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2013/dec/14/to...
shripadk 11y ago
If Apple can come with a solution for recycling these second hand phones I'm all ears. So far there is no word on that issue. We already have a lot of e-waste in the country as it is. Adding more to it will cause serious environmental hazards.
- sokoloff 11y ago
  The article addresses that point directly: "To be sure, Apple has some of the industry’s most exacting protocols for recycling products. The company says it typically manages to collect and recycle 85 percent, by weight, of devices produced seven years earlier. Apple’s eventual plan, as stated in its application to the government, is to set up facilities that take discarded phones and refurbish them for use."
  - shripadk 11y ago
    That policy is for a first-hand phone. Does the same policy continue for a second-hand phone (which is basically "refurbish them for use")?
    - samastur 11y ago
      Where does it say that? You seem to be set against this so under what conditions could Apple (or anybody else) sell refurbished phones that would be acceptable to you? Or do they become problem immediately once they are not new?
      - shripadk 11y ago
        Does Apple state that the recycling policy applies to any phone irrespective of how many hands has been changed in the process? Would you be willing to buy a second hand refurbished phone from Apple if the recycling policy does not apply for the second hand phone?
        sokoloff 11y ago
        Since the alternative would be "there is no market for reuse of once-used phone", the recycling policy would not deter me. Apple as a seller and I as a buyer are making the world better by providing a secondary market for high-level re-use rather than component/elemental level recycling or landfilling. IOW, the recycling policy DOES apply, IMO, even if there is no downstream from my use recycling intent (which I think is still an open question from the text and the overall good results Apple gets on recycling). As a US consumer, I generally buy and use 13-18 month old iPhones until they no longer reliably function or until the battery life is too poor, then I go buy another one-generation old phone. Apple has nothing to do with this, other than keeping the upgrade treadmill going for everyone else so I can get my $200-250 used phones to put on an MVNO (Ting in my case).
        shripadk 11y ago
        "there is no market for reuse of once-used phone" That is not the case. There is already a thriving market for reused phones in India. However this is already creating a massive problem of e-waste and hazards. Read this article: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=11211916 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1121191.... Note that the article linked to is of 2007. You can imagine the amount of e-waste India has imported since then. If Apple's policy includes second hand recycling then there would be no barriers to entry. It would be good if Apple made it clear. There are too many old phones that are available in the secondary market. This is already creating a lot of e-waste which India doesn't have the resources to dispose off. The only other solution is for India to dump this e-waste to even lesser developing countries but that would be shrugging away responsibility. The other problem is that, by giving Apple permission, India would set a precedent. If Apple is given permission to sell second hand phones, don't you think other mobile manufactures like Sony/Samsung/Karbon etc would also want similar permissions? They would be happy to create "recycling policies" on paper if that would ensure them access to India's secondary market. The question is who will enforce it?

by geon 11y ago

> dumping ground for second hand phones Why the negative phrasing? What is wrong with reuse? Would it be any difference if the phones were new? Is it an environmental issue?

DanBC 11y ago

Personally, I don't think this is going to happen with these Apple phones. (Although I'd be interested to see what happens with security updates; and how easy they are to use with local languages.) But. There have been considerable environmental problems with companies dumping e-waste on developing world countries. Sometimes this e-waste is described as "used, low cost computing equipment", sometimes it's described as "recyclable waste". Either of those sound fine. When I hear them I think of a small local co-op fixing the computers and installing free software and distributing them to schools or whatnot. Or of people dismantling and sorting the stuff, and recycling for cash. What actually happens is something like the e-waste dump in Agbogbloshie, Accra, Ghana. http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00sch78 http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00sch78 http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2013/dec/14/toxic-ewaste-illegal-dumping-developing-countries http://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2013/dec/14/to...

shripadk 11y ago

If Apple can come with a solution for recycling these second hand phones I'm all ears. So far there is no word on that issue. We already have a lot of e-waste in the country as it is. Adding more to it will cause serious environmental hazards.

sokoloff 11y ago
The article addresses that point directly: "To be sure, Apple has some of the industry’s most exacting protocols for recycling products. The company says it typically manages to collect and recycle 85 percent, by weight, of devices produced seven years earlier. Apple’s eventual plan, as stated in its application to the government, is to set up facilities that take discarded phones and refurbish them for use."
- shripadk 11y ago
  That policy is for a first-hand phone. Does the same policy continue for a second-hand phone (which is basically "refurbish them for use")?
  - samastur 11y ago
    Where does it say that? You seem to be set against this so under what conditions could Apple (or anybody else) sell refurbished phones that would be acceptable to you? Or do they become problem immediately once they are not new?
    - shripadk 11y ago
      Does Apple state that the recycling policy applies to any phone irrespective of how many hands has been changed in the process? Would you be willing to buy a second hand refurbished phone from Apple if the recycling policy does not apply for the second hand phone?
      - sokoloff 11y ago
        Since the alternative would be "there is no market for reuse of once-used phone", the recycling policy would not deter me. Apple as a seller and I as a buyer are making the world better by providing a secondary market for high-level re-use rather than component/elemental level recycling or landfilling. IOW, the recycling policy DOES apply, IMO, even if there is no downstream from my use recycling intent (which I think is still an open question from the text and the overall good results Apple gets on recycling). As a US consumer, I generally buy and use 13-18 month old iPhones until they no longer reliably function or until the battery life is too poor, then I go buy another one-generation old phone. Apple has nothing to do with this, other than keeping the upgrade treadmill going for everyone else so I can get my $200-250 used phones to put on an MVNO (Ting in my case).
        shripadk 11y ago
        "there is no market for reuse of once-used phone" That is not the case. There is already a thriving market for reused phones in India. However this is already creating a massive problem of e-waste and hazards. Read this article: http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=11211916 http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=1121191.... Note that the article linked to is of 2007. You can imagine the amount of e-waste India has imported since then. If Apple's policy includes second hand recycling then there would be no barriers to entry. It would be good if Apple made it clear. There are too many old phones that are available in the secondary market. This is already creating a lot of e-waste which India doesn't have the resources to dispose off. The only other solution is for India to dump this e-waste to even lesser developing countries but that would be shrugging away responsibility. The other problem is that, by giving Apple permission, India would set a precedent. If Apple is given permission to sell second hand phones, don't you think other mobile manufactures like Sony/Samsung/Karbon etc would also want similar permissions? They would be happy to create "recycling policies" on paper if that would ensure them access to India's secondary market. The question is who will enforce it?