6 ms·

I just wish all devices were more like PC's. My desktop computer is a glorious, glorious device. I have millions of different bits of software for it, many ope

I just wish all devices were more like PC's. My desktop computer is a glorious, glorious device. I have millions of different bits of software for it, many operating systems, open source, proprietary, etcetera. It's all there. It really feels like my machine. If I don't want Windows, I blow it away and install Linux, BSD, Plan 9, code my own bootloader, whatever. My laptop is a bit less so (can't find the perfect form factor for me, can't upgrade it, etc) but it's very similar. It's mine. I have spice, vnc, rdp, ssh, sftp, ftp, irc, <insert a million other things here regardless of whether I actually ever use them> as commandline tools that just work and aren't filled with adverts or in app purchases or 'please add this to your google account'. Phones and tablets? Complete write off. My smartphone is basically a toaster. Android and iOS make what could be a general purpose computer into a Fisher Price experience. It's really sad to me. I'd love a modern version of the Psion Series 5. The Pyra (https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/pages/pyra/ https://pyra-handheld.com/boards/pages/pyra/) looks like a decent candidate. All I need is a Linux distribution with an API or commandline 'sms' and 'call' tool. The mainstream is basically focused on creating a slightly more interactive version of a portable television, which I find deeply saddening.

voltagex_ 11y ago
Have a look at http://maruos.com/ http://maruos.com/, the dev has an interesting idea - AOSP when the phone's working by itself, plug in a Slimport connector and pair a Bluetooth keyboard and there's Debian running, ready for you to use. I'm not sure what's going on with the project. Two months later you still have to email the developer to get a beta build, even though it was supposedly open sourced. Approaching it from the other direction, https://plus.google.com/111524780435806926688/posts/fkQ1BMjNNcn https://plus.google.com/111524780435806926688/posts/fkQ1BMjN... shows a nearly mainline kernel running on the 2013 Nexus 7, including hardware accelerated graphics. It should be a hop skip and 14 hour build step [1] to get Debian running on it. [1] repo sync -j24 / make -j24 droidcore can be painful
- stegosaurus 11y ago
  Very interested in the Nexus 7 progress. I may have to pick one up and grab a hardware keyboard. Killing off Android and getting X11/Wayland on there with a regular DE would be amazing. I can deal with WiFi only - a workaround would be to just carry around an android device or similar as a hotspot.
  - voltagex_ 11y ago
    2013 Nexus 7s appear to go for $1000 in Australia, which is insanity. I've got one here but some emails sent to me in private have caused me to hold off on running anything custom on it (email for details, not sure if I can release publically).
    - bcook 11y ago
      Wow. Can you share a reference to that insane price?
      - voltagex_ 11y ago
        http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Asus-Nexus-7-Tablet-Quad-Core-2013-32GB-Wifi-4G-LTE-12-Month-Asus-Warranty-/351144755509?hash=item51c1dbc135:g:QagAAOSwKIpV-kyP http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Asus-Nexus-7-Tablet-Quad-Core-201... I may have over-generalised. They're not manufactured any more, are they? At the time I found that price, I was trying to filter out all the 2012 Nexus 7's (product marketers, please don't use the year to differentiate).
intrasight 11y ago
I second the wish for a modern Psion. That form-factor started to get popular again in Asia right before the iPhone. But the iPhone changed everything. I think the best option now is the Surface 4 Pro.
quanticle 11y ago
>Phones and tablets? Complete write off. My smartphone is basically a toaster. You say that like it's a bad thing. For the vast majority of people, they wish their computers behaved more like toasters, rather than finicky, customizable, yet extremely powerful pieces of computing machinery that they are.
- stegosaurus 11y ago
  Well, I'm me, and it's a bad thing for me. I don't want the world to change so that these devices don't exist. I'm just sad that there aren't options. It feels like a huge waste of potential. Creation benefits us all. In a world without something like the IBM-compatible PC we'd likely never have gotten to the point of creating smartphones because the tools simply wouldn't exist.
- Pengwin 11y ago
  For some reason this makes me sad, I guess it's similar to a motor enthusiast being angry at someone who thinks a car is "just a car". In my opinion, computers deserve to be more than consumer content endpoints.
- taneq 11y ago
  Converting the microcomputer into an appliance was (and is) literally Apple's entire schtick.
- beedogs 11y ago
  The vast majority of people are idiots who shouldn't be allowed to touch a computer with a barge pole, though. I don't really care what kind of experience they want.
- ekianjo 11y ago
  > yet extremely powerful pieces of computing machinery that they are. It's a bad thing because they are not behaving like general purpose computers anymore. Locking you in every corner you go.
ekianjo 11y ago
> Phones and tablets? Complete write off. My smartphone is basically a toaster. Android and iOS make what could be a general purpose computer into a Fisher Price experience. It's really sad to me. Yeah. I just realized today (I don't own an iPad but used one from a colleague) that iPads can't even DOWNLOAD files from the browser. From a browser! The level of lock-in of such devices never ceases to amaze me.
fractallyte 11y ago
The Jolla smartphone (https://jolla.com/phone/ https://jolla.com/phone/) is a handheld Linux computer - definitely NOT a toaster! (Here's my comment from a few weeks ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11278620 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11278620). Overlook the mediocre hardware, it's the software (OS and apps) that defines this phone; there's nothing else like it, anywhere. (It's made by the same engineers that developed the legendary Nokia N9.) Access via SSH from your PC, or use its native terminal app. Mine is even running Emacs (natively!), plus Android applications. I haven't even mentioned 'The Other Half' - which allows for hardware expansions such as e-ink displays, keyboards, sensors, etc. With a bluetooth keyboard - the best options are currently a Jorno (https://jornostore.com/ https://jornostore.com/), but soon a TextBlade (https://waytools.com/ https://waytools.com/) - this is a marvellous machine. Sure, I'm telling everyone about it - this is the smartphone I always wanted; it deserves to succeed! Incidentally, I have both a Psion 5mx and Revo. This is the first device that truly feels like a successor. [Aside: after a long delay, the TextBlade is finally being beta-tested by users, and should be shipping soon.]
- ACow_Adonis 11y ago
  Except here's the thing. All those devices are about trying to get desktop-like abilities out of something that is inherently not-desktop like. I don't want a dock, or a touch-screen, I want multiple monitors, setup at the right height. I don't want a textblade, or a bluetooth keyboard, as cool as they seem conceptually. Because fundamentally, a cool little portable keyboard is still, qualitatively, a shitty keyboard. I want actual full sized mechanical keyboards. Why would I ever use such a thing if i had an option? I want a comfortable ergonomic chair, and a nice spacious desk. because I don't know about anyone else, but I swear I get headaches and muscle spams after I attempt to read much from my smartphone or laptop. Don't get me wrong, I have a smartphone, and I have a little dell ultrabook for when I'm travelling. But I can't have my XX-buffers open in emacs on my phone, whether it be linux or not, and I would never try to turn my phone into a desktop computer, or pretend that it is comparable. I don't have an ipad or tablet, i admit. I can't for the life of me figure out a use for them that doesn't take away features from an ultrabook while adding anything else. I of course know why they (phones and tablets) selling so well. Because they aren't effectively consumed as computers. They are media consumption, entertainment and communication devices. But if they ever manage to pry my desktop from my cold, dead hands, I think I might just have to weep and off myself. I don't think that's a world i want to live in. Thankfully, although its not "sexy", i think it'll be around for a while yet. Although, try working at a corporate and asking for a powerful desktop to, you know, actually do work. This obsession with tablets/mobiles/laptops is already having a very harmful effect on my professional life, because its becoming standard to equip employees with substandard equipment, and the apple hipsters are...quite frankly...fully on board and driving that into professional spheres as well. The consultants turn up with their little mac notebooks, and its just "jesus christ..."...shakes head /end rant
qplex 11y ago
>Phones and tablets? Complete write off. My smartphone is basically a toaster. Android and iOS make what could be a general purpose computer into a Fisher Price experience. It's really sad to me. I'm not sure where are you coming from with this? With the stock roms the "Fisher Price" experience as you call it is perhaps somewhat true. A lot of Android devices are very much rootable so once you get a modified recovery software flashed to the device. Then you're pretty much set to do whatever you like.
fit2rule 11y ago
As a long-term OpenPandora user, I have to say that the final release of the Pyra really excites me. Its truly the device that you describe that you want .. built to be open, by open-source enthusiasts, who just want to have a great machine. It really is the sole point of light in a sea of darkness. Like, we can actually know the people making the hardware: this is something not achieved often in the open-source space.

voltagex_ 11y ago

Have a look at http://maruos.com/ http://maruos.com/, the dev has an interesting idea - AOSP when the phone's working by itself, plug in a Slimport connector and pair a Bluetooth keyboard and there's Debian running, ready for you to use. I'm not sure what's going on with the project. Two months later you still have to email the developer to get a beta build, even though it was supposedly open sourced. Approaching it from the other direction, https://plus.google.com/111524780435806926688/posts/fkQ1BMjNNcn https://plus.google.com/111524780435806926688/posts/fkQ1BMjN... shows a nearly mainline kernel running on the 2013 Nexus 7, including hardware accelerated graphics. It should be a hop skip and 14 hour build step [1] to get Debian running on it. [1] repo sync -j24 / make -j24 droidcore can be painful

stegosaurus 11y ago
Very interested in the Nexus 7 progress. I may have to pick one up and grab a hardware keyboard. Killing off Android and getting X11/Wayland on there with a regular DE would be amazing. I can deal with WiFi only - a workaround would be to just carry around an android device or similar as a hotspot.
- voltagex_ 11y ago
  2013 Nexus 7s appear to go for $1000 in Australia, which is insanity. I've got one here but some emails sent to me in private have caused me to hold off on running anything custom on it (email for details, not sure if I can release publically).
  - bcook 11y ago
    Wow. Can you share a reference to that insane price?
    - voltagex_ 11y ago
      http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Asus-Nexus-7-Tablet-Quad-Core-2013-32GB-Wifi-4G-LTE-12-Month-Asus-Warranty-/351144755509?hash=item51c1dbc135:g:QagAAOSwKIpV-kyP http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Asus-Nexus-7-Tablet-Quad-Core-201... I may have over-generalised. They're not manufactured any more, are they? At the time I found that price, I was trying to filter out all the 2012 Nexus 7's (product marketers, please don't use the year to differentiate).

intrasight 11y ago

I second the wish for a modern Psion. That form-factor started to get popular again in Asia right before the iPhone. But the iPhone changed everything. I think the best option now is the Surface 4 Pro.

quanticle 11y ago

>Phones and tablets? Complete write off. My smartphone is basically a toaster. You say that like it's a bad thing. For the vast majority of people, they wish their computers behaved more like toasters, rather than finicky, customizable, yet extremely powerful pieces of computing machinery that they are.

stegosaurus 11y ago
Well, I'm me, and it's a bad thing for me. I don't want the world to change so that these devices don't exist. I'm just sad that there aren't options. It feels like a huge waste of potential. Creation benefits us all. In a world without something like the IBM-compatible PC we'd likely never have gotten to the point of creating smartphones because the tools simply wouldn't exist.
Pengwin 11y ago
For some reason this makes me sad, I guess it's similar to a motor enthusiast being angry at someone who thinks a car is "just a car". In my opinion, computers deserve to be more than consumer content endpoints.
taneq 11y ago
Converting the microcomputer into an appliance was (and is) literally Apple's entire schtick.
beedogs 11y ago
The vast majority of people are idiots who shouldn't be allowed to touch a computer with a barge pole, though. I don't really care what kind of experience they want.
ekianjo 11y ago
> yet extremely powerful pieces of computing machinery that they are. It's a bad thing because they are not behaving like general purpose computers anymore. Locking you in every corner you go.

ekianjo 11y ago

> Phones and tablets? Complete write off. My smartphone is basically a toaster. Android and iOS make what could be a general purpose computer into a Fisher Price experience. It's really sad to me. Yeah. I just realized today (I don't own an iPad but used one from a colleague) that iPads can't even DOWNLOAD files from the browser. From a browser! The level of lock-in of such devices never ceases to amaze me.

fractallyte 11y ago

The Jolla smartphone (https://jolla.com/phone/ https://jolla.com/phone/) is a handheld Linux computer - definitely NOT a toaster! (Here's my comment from a few weeks ago: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11278620 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11278620). Overlook the mediocre hardware, it's the software (OS and apps) that defines this phone; there's nothing else like it, anywhere. (It's made by the same engineers that developed the legendary Nokia N9.) Access via SSH from your PC, or use its native terminal app. Mine is even running Emacs (natively!), plus Android applications. I haven't even mentioned 'The Other Half' - which allows for hardware expansions such as e-ink displays, keyboards, sensors, etc. With a bluetooth keyboard - the best options are currently a Jorno (https://jornostore.com/ https://jornostore.com/), but soon a TextBlade (https://waytools.com/ https://waytools.com/) - this is a marvellous machine. Sure, I'm telling everyone about it - this is the smartphone I always wanted; it deserves to succeed! Incidentally, I have both a Psion 5mx and Revo. This is the first device that truly feels like a successor. [Aside: after a long delay, the TextBlade is finally being beta-tested by users, and should be shipping soon.]

ACow_Adonis 11y ago
Except here's the thing. All those devices are about trying to get desktop-like abilities out of something that is inherently not-desktop like. I don't want a dock, or a touch-screen, I want multiple monitors, setup at the right height. I don't want a textblade, or a bluetooth keyboard, as cool as they seem conceptually. Because fundamentally, a cool little portable keyboard is still, qualitatively, a shitty keyboard. I want actual full sized mechanical keyboards. Why would I ever use such a thing if i had an option? I want a comfortable ergonomic chair, and a nice spacious desk. because I don't know about anyone else, but I swear I get headaches and muscle spams after I attempt to read much from my smartphone or laptop. Don't get me wrong, I have a smartphone, and I have a little dell ultrabook for when I'm travelling. But I can't have my XX-buffers open in emacs on my phone, whether it be linux or not, and I would never try to turn my phone into a desktop computer, or pretend that it is comparable. I don't have an ipad or tablet, i admit. I can't for the life of me figure out a use for them that doesn't take away features from an ultrabook while adding anything else. I of course know why they (phones and tablets) selling so well. Because they aren't effectively consumed as computers. They are media consumption, entertainment and communication devices. But if they ever manage to pry my desktop from my cold, dead hands, I think I might just have to weep and off myself. I don't think that's a world i want to live in. Thankfully, although its not "sexy", i think it'll be around for a while yet. Although, try working at a corporate and asking for a powerful desktop to, you know, actually do work. This obsession with tablets/mobiles/laptops is already having a very harmful effect on my professional life, because its becoming standard to equip employees with substandard equipment, and the apple hipsters are...quite frankly...fully on board and driving that into professional spheres as well. The consultants turn up with their little mac notebooks, and its just "jesus christ..."...shakes head /end rant

qplex 11y ago

>Phones and tablets? Complete write off. My smartphone is basically a toaster. Android and iOS make what could be a general purpose computer into a Fisher Price experience. It's really sad to me. I'm not sure where are you coming from with this? With the stock roms the "Fisher Price" experience as you call it is perhaps somewhat true. A lot of Android devices are very much rootable so once you get a modified recovery software flashed to the device. Then you're pretty much set to do whatever you like.

fit2rule 11y ago

As a long-term OpenPandora user, I have to say that the final release of the Pyra really excites me. Its truly the device that you describe that you want .. built to be open, by open-source enthusiasts, who just want to have a great machine. It really is the sole point of light in a sea of darkness. Like, we can actually know the people making the hardware: this is something not achieved often in the open-source space.