4 ms·

But doesn't this prove the point? Either nobody was willing to bid lower: the system works. Or someone would be willing to bid lower but its a team filled wit

by rtpg 11y ago

But doesn't this prove the point? Either nobody was willing to bid lower: the system works. Or someone would be willing to bid lower but its a team filled with white guys: the system works. Maybe these other companies should think about their hiring practices considering that they exist in an area with a large minority that doesn't seem present in the team. I don't know the details though, maybe there's some capital requirements or something that's pretty hard to match

Spooky23 11y ago
The point is that the team of white guys is still performing the work. The only people making a return here are the well-connected minority/woman/veteran contractor and the politican or friend/family thereof who gets a cut of the action.
- rtpg 11y ago
  Doesn't the point still stand? If they want 100% of the money (instead of 80% or whatever), they could get it by hiring minorities into their team (hell, higher the guy doing the subcontracting as a "business developer"!). Some people have commented in other threads that just subcontracting can get you into a lot of trouble if caught though.
  - Spooky23 11y ago
    If you think the point is to help minority businesspeople, then no. The legit business people who aren't just patsies often get screwed by these arrangements. They end up holding a massive short term liability that the big contractor (IBM, Oracle, EDS, etc) wants paid NOW, but the receivable is mired in some crazy 120 day late pay hell with the government. If we want to hire minorities to improve their lot, just hire them. Or require actual bids on contracts that a small business person can grok instead of blanket purchase arrangements that require Fortune 50 sized legal/contract teams to bid on. Of course, if the point is to generate extra income for the spouses of corporate execs and campaign contributions, than sure, these programs are uber successful.
    - Frondo 11y ago
      "Or require actual bids on contracts that a small business person can grok instead of blanket purchase arrangements that require Fortune 50 sized legal/contract teams to bid on." At the local level, at least in the Pacific Northwest, this is exactly what happens. Local agencies have targets of anywhere from 15-30%, for how much they'd like to spend directly on contract dollars awarded to minority-owned/woman-owned firms. Most are hitting between 5-15% now, but I'd say probably 4 out of 5 purchasing managers wants to do better and actively encourages their staff to do outreach to the minority/woman-owned small business communities.

by rtpg 11y ago

Spooky23 11y ago

The point is that the team of white guys is still performing the work. The only people making a return here are the well-connected minority/woman/veteran contractor and the politican or friend/family thereof who gets a cut of the action.

rtpg 11y ago
Doesn't the point still stand? If they want 100% of the money (instead of 80% or whatever), they could get it by hiring minorities into their team (hell, higher the guy doing the subcontracting as a "business developer"!). Some people have commented in other threads that just subcontracting can get you into a lot of trouble if caught though.
- Spooky23 11y ago
  If you think the point is to help minority businesspeople, then no. The legit business people who aren't just patsies often get screwed by these arrangements. They end up holding a massive short term liability that the big contractor (IBM, Oracle, EDS, etc) wants paid NOW, but the receivable is mired in some crazy 120 day late pay hell with the government. If we want to hire minorities to improve their lot, just hire them. Or require actual bids on contracts that a small business person can grok instead of blanket purchase arrangements that require Fortune 50 sized legal/contract teams to bid on. Of course, if the point is to generate extra income for the spouses of corporate execs and campaign contributions, than sure, these programs are uber successful.
  - Frondo 11y ago
    "Or require actual bids on contracts that a small business person can grok instead of blanket purchase arrangements that require Fortune 50 sized legal/contract teams to bid on." At the local level, at least in the Pacific Northwest, this is exactly what happens. Local agencies have targets of anywhere from 15-30%, for how much they'd like to spend directly on contract dollars awarded to minority-owned/woman-owned firms. Most are hitting between 5-15% now, but I'd say probably 4 out of 5 purchasing managers wants to do better and actively encourages their staff to do outreach to the minority/woman-owned small business communities.