3 ms·

I didn't say they don't require publication, only that they aren't paying for it. Plenty of Elsevier titles offer open access for a fee now. And PLOS and co ar

by ikeboy 11y ago

I didn't say they don't require publication, only that they aren't paying for it. Plenty of Elsevier titles offer open access for a fee now. And PLOS and co are putting pressure to reduce margins. I don't think it's bad enough that something illegal needs to be done to force it to fix itself. And I've asked before: if Elsevier slashed all their prices by 30%, would people be happy with it? If the answer is no, then they aren't only complaining about profit.

return0 11y ago
Grants typically include publishing costs, it's very rare the scientist will pay out of pocket. And because grant agencies encourage high impact publications it's not small amounts. Ironically, grants that require open access while encouraging high-impact publication end up paying more, as high-impact journals charge more for open access. I agree that money is not the major issue, but the entrapment of useful information in closed systems and its decentralization. We have machine learning systems that could consume the vast amounts of data and come up with potentially life-saving results, but we don't have access to the data, because for 50+ years its been more and more locked in.
- ikeboy 11y ago
  My understanding is that the publisher subsidizes publishing costs and makes it up on access charges. So if the grant didn't pay the cost to publish, the publisher will. I agree that it's a nice ideal to have everything open, but people need to realize that there are costs to doing so, and merely saying "I paid for it, therefore I have a right to read it" doesn't do much.
  - cinquemb 11y ago
    >I agree that it's a nice ideal to have everything open, but people need to realize that there are costs to doing so, and merely saying "I paid for it, therefore I have a right to read it" doesn't do much. You're right, that's why places like sci-hub exist, and Elsevier et al dont seem to be winning this fight…
- Fomite 11y ago
  > Grants typically include publishing costs, it's very rare the scientist will pay out of pocket. Though for small labs just starting out, two or three open access publications written into a grant definitely could have gone to salary for someone. Even if it's written into a grant, it's not a trivial expense.

by ikeboy 11y ago

return0 11y ago

Grants typically include publishing costs, it's very rare the scientist will pay out of pocket. And because grant agencies encourage high impact publications it's not small amounts. Ironically, grants that require open access while encouraging high-impact publication end up paying more, as high-impact journals charge more for open access. I agree that money is not the major issue, but the entrapment of useful information in closed systems and its decentralization. We have machine learning systems that could consume the vast amounts of data and come up with potentially life-saving results, but we don't have access to the data, because for 50+ years its been more and more locked in.

ikeboy 11y ago
My understanding is that the publisher subsidizes publishing costs and makes it up on access charges. So if the grant didn't pay the cost to publish, the publisher will. I agree that it's a nice ideal to have everything open, but people need to realize that there are costs to doing so, and merely saying "I paid for it, therefore I have a right to read it" doesn't do much.
- cinquemb 11y ago
  >I agree that it's a nice ideal to have everything open, but people need to realize that there are costs to doing so, and merely saying "I paid for it, therefore I have a right to read it" doesn't do much. You're right, that's why places like sci-hub exist, and Elsevier et al dont seem to be winning this fight…
Fomite 11y ago
> Grants typically include publishing costs, it's very rare the scientist will pay out of pocket. Though for small labs just starting out, two or three open access publications written into a grant definitely could have gone to salary for someone. Even if it's written into a grant, it's not a trivial expense.