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Large portions of people that live where it snows will only drive a front wheel drive (or all wheel drive) vehicle. My first car was a $400 rear wheel drive be

Large portions of people that live where it snows will only drive a front wheel drive (or all wheel drive) vehicle. My first car was a $400 rear wheel drive beast, so it doesn't bother me - but a lot of people think I'm crazy driving my (rear wheel) Camaro in the winter.

M4N14C 11y ago
Lived in upstate NY with a RWD Tacoma. Put snow tires and 200 pounds of sand in the back. It was fine, used to take it snowboarding through storms all the time.
torgoguys 11y ago
Yep, this. I don't care about crazy good performance, but do want something I feel handles reliably in snowy and icy conditions. Call me an unskilled driver, but I don't feel as confident in bad conditions with rear wheel drive.
- dsfyu404ed 11y ago
  You're an unskilled driver. Traction is traction. No matter how a car handles it'll handle the same way on every surface, the traction threshold will be different. No matter which wheels are driven turning and braking is the same. In a straight line it front/rear doesn't really matter. RWD will slip out, FWD will just spin and in either case the driver (the one's that aren't the worst of the worst) will lift off the throttle before anything bad happens. In a modern car traction control will just work it's magic and you wouldn't even know. Ditto for turning from a stop. The driven wheels are irreverent to turning while slowing. The problem is in a long sweeping turn that the driver wants to accelerate out of, like a highway ramp. FWD will just plow straight into whatever is outside the turn. RWD will do the same thing but the car will be oriented differently. No matter which wheels are driven if you break traction in a turn you're going to go wide, better hope you've got enough space to correct it. The safety advantage with understeer is that if you do something monumentally stupid (e.g. drunk guy takes highway off ramp at 90mph) the front of the car with all it's crash test safety will be between you and the consequences of your actions. The RWD vs FWD thing is more of a "what I don't know can't hurt me." The novice won't notice a little bit of understeer whereas anyone will notice a little bit of oversteer and everyone who can't apply a reasonable amount of self control to their right foot should bend over, grab their ankles and spend their money on some snow tires. The Miata club of Alaska was featured in one of the car magizines (I forget which) and they basically said "Everyone that thinks we're insane for driving these cars year round in Alaska should know that the design characteristics that help maximize use of available traction in the dry don't stop working in the snow."
  - tzs 11y ago
    You are overlooking weight distribution. The traction of a given tire on a given surface generally increases as the weight on that tire increases. Given two otherwise similar cars, one with the engine over the drive wheels, and one with the engine over non-drive wheels, the former will generally have an advantage in snow, especially on hills.
    - kalleboo 11y ago
      Agreed, but if we move the conversation back to electric cars - they might not have the same weight distribution, right? The Tesla uses direct drive on the wheels (the Leaf seems to use a more traditional "one motor in the front" configuration though), and then you have the huge battery spread out over the floor
- tbyehl 11y ago
  Ever watch one of those YouTube videos of RWD cars on proper winter tires out-tractioning AWD cars on summer / all-season tires? I survived the Atlanta snow storm a couple years ago turning a 35 mile commute into 50+ miles due to detours in a BMW on summer tires... The only confidence I felt was that I was going to end up stuck somewhere, but adjusting driving style to conditions goes a long way and then it's just the luck of not getting hit by someone who didn't.
Mikeb85 11y ago
> a lot of people think I'm crazy driving my (rear wheel) Camaro in the winter. It's because you are, maybe, depending where you live.
- sokoloff 11y ago
  I daily drove a RWD Alfa Spider for 5 years year-round in Boston, and a Mercedes diesel sedan (also RWD) for 4 years. The Alfa had a (mechanical) limited slip differential and the MB had snow tires, but that was it. I could drive either of them until the snow got deep enough to high-center the car. It's not rocket science.
  - DavidAdams 11y ago
    People don't realize how much difference good snow tires make. I'd rather have a FWD car with Nokian tires than an AWD car with all seasons.
- jrapdx3 11y ago
  Thing is, in the places mentioned, there aren't hills like we have where I live. Makes a huge difference in snow and icy conditions. It also matters when winter temperatures tend to hover around the freezing point vs. well below. It's hard to gain traction when the surface is slippery rather than hard frozen but essentially dry. I've owned RWD vehicles (e.g., Volvo) in the past, I mean, good cars but useless trying to go up/down a steep incline just after a wet, sloppy snowstorm. To those professing to "know how to drive in snow" with RWD, I've offered the challenge of driving up to my house when our streets are coated with ice-encrusted snow. Nobody has yet taken me up on it. Even FWD can be insufficient. I've insisted on all-wheel drive at a minimum. My near-ancient 2003 Honda Pilot has a locked 4-wheel range in low gear. There have been times I needed it, and even a few cases where I also had to use chains. Whether RWD will suffice ultimately depends a lot on environment, road and weather conditions.
ghaff 11y ago
My first car was a Camaro (V-8 350hp '79 or so). I bought it when I was going to work in New Orleans for a few years. Then I went to grad school in Ithaca NY. I used to joke that it skidded when there was a forecast of snow.
cmrdporcupine 11y ago
Thanks for this. I was wondering what planet the upper posters were from, extolling the virtues of rear wheel drive -- then I remembered other people don't live in a land where half the year has frozen rain, ice and snow. Rear wheel drive was great on my '84 Ford Ranger when I needed an excuse to skip school -- couldn't get it up my parent's driveway, sorry!
- dsfyu404ed 11y ago
  Meanwhile the janitor who can only afford an RWD pickup makes it to school just fine...

M4N14C 11y ago

Lived in upstate NY with a RWD Tacoma. Put snow tires and 200 pounds of sand in the back. It was fine, used to take it snowboarding through storms all the time.

torgoguys 11y ago

Yep, this. I don't care about crazy good performance, but do want something I feel handles reliably in snowy and icy conditions. Call me an unskilled driver, but I don't feel as confident in bad conditions with rear wheel drive.

dsfyu404ed 11y ago
You're an unskilled driver. Traction is traction. No matter how a car handles it'll handle the same way on every surface, the traction threshold will be different. No matter which wheels are driven turning and braking is the same. In a straight line it front/rear doesn't really matter. RWD will slip out, FWD will just spin and in either case the driver (the one's that aren't the worst of the worst) will lift off the throttle before anything bad happens. In a modern car traction control will just work it's magic and you wouldn't even know. Ditto for turning from a stop. The driven wheels are irreverent to turning while slowing. The problem is in a long sweeping turn that the driver wants to accelerate out of, like a highway ramp. FWD will just plow straight into whatever is outside the turn. RWD will do the same thing but the car will be oriented differently. No matter which wheels are driven if you break traction in a turn you're going to go wide, better hope you've got enough space to correct it. The safety advantage with understeer is that if you do something monumentally stupid (e.g. drunk guy takes highway off ramp at 90mph) the front of the car with all it's crash test safety will be between you and the consequences of your actions. The RWD vs FWD thing is more of a "what I don't know can't hurt me." The novice won't notice a little bit of understeer whereas anyone will notice a little bit of oversteer and everyone who can't apply a reasonable amount of self control to their right foot should bend over, grab their ankles and spend their money on some snow tires. The Miata club of Alaska was featured in one of the car magizines (I forget which) and they basically said "Everyone that thinks we're insane for driving these cars year round in Alaska should know that the design characteristics that help maximize use of available traction in the dry don't stop working in the snow."
- tzs 11y ago
  You are overlooking weight distribution. The traction of a given tire on a given surface generally increases as the weight on that tire increases. Given two otherwise similar cars, one with the engine over the drive wheels, and one with the engine over non-drive wheels, the former will generally have an advantage in snow, especially on hills.
  - kalleboo 11y ago
    Agreed, but if we move the conversation back to electric cars - they might not have the same weight distribution, right? The Tesla uses direct drive on the wheels (the Leaf seems to use a more traditional "one motor in the front" configuration though), and then you have the huge battery spread out over the floor
tbyehl 11y ago
Ever watch one of those YouTube videos of RWD cars on proper winter tires out-tractioning AWD cars on summer / all-season tires? I survived the Atlanta snow storm a couple years ago turning a 35 mile commute into 50+ miles due to detours in a BMW on summer tires... The only confidence I felt was that I was going to end up stuck somewhere, but adjusting driving style to conditions goes a long way and then it's just the luck of not getting hit by someone who didn't.

Mikeb85 11y ago

> a lot of people think I'm crazy driving my (rear wheel) Camaro in the winter. It's because you are, maybe, depending where you live.

sokoloff 11y ago
I daily drove a RWD Alfa Spider for 5 years year-round in Boston, and a Mercedes diesel sedan (also RWD) for 4 years. The Alfa had a (mechanical) limited slip differential and the MB had snow tires, but that was it. I could drive either of them until the snow got deep enough to high-center the car. It's not rocket science.
- DavidAdams 11y ago
  People don't realize how much difference good snow tires make. I'd rather have a FWD car with Nokian tires than an AWD car with all seasons.
jrapdx3 11y ago
Thing is, in the places mentioned, there aren't hills like we have where I live. Makes a huge difference in snow and icy conditions. It also matters when winter temperatures tend to hover around the freezing point vs. well below. It's hard to gain traction when the surface is slippery rather than hard frozen but essentially dry. I've owned RWD vehicles (e.g., Volvo) in the past, I mean, good cars but useless trying to go up/down a steep incline just after a wet, sloppy snowstorm. To those professing to "know how to drive in snow" with RWD, I've offered the challenge of driving up to my house when our streets are coated with ice-encrusted snow. Nobody has yet taken me up on it. Even FWD can be insufficient. I've insisted on all-wheel drive at a minimum. My near-ancient 2003 Honda Pilot has a locked 4-wheel range in low gear. There have been times I needed it, and even a few cases where I also had to use chains. Whether RWD will suffice ultimately depends a lot on environment, road and weather conditions.

ghaff 11y ago

My first car was a Camaro (V-8 350hp '79 or so). I bought it when I was going to work in New Orleans for a few years. Then I went to grad school in Ithaca NY. I used to joke that it skidded when there was a forecast of snow.

cmrdporcupine 11y ago

Thanks for this. I was wondering what planet the upper posters were from, extolling the virtues of rear wheel drive -- then I remembered other people don't live in a land where half the year has frozen rain, ice and snow. Rear wheel drive was great on my '84 Ford Ranger when I needed an excuse to skip school -- couldn't get it up my parent's driveway, sorry!

dsfyu404ed 11y ago
Meanwhile the janitor who can only afford an RWD pickup makes it to school just fine...