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I thought I'd miss physical buttons, too, but I don't. I really don't. It's very easy to use the touchscreen in a Tesla. Plus, you do have physical buttons avai

I thought I'd miss physical buttons, too, but I don't. I really don't. It's very easy to use the touchscreen in a Tesla. Plus, you do have physical buttons available for climate: they are on the steering wheel (if you decide to chose that option).

awestley 11y ago
Agreed. I had the same hesitation. Like most things with the Tesla, you need to experience it to truly appreciate it.
marcoperaza 11y ago
Can you safely operate the entertainment system while driving? With physical buttons, I can turn the volume knob or cycle through radio station presets without taking my attention off the road. With a touch screen, you don't get tactile feedback and modal dialogs or different screens can block controls, so you have to divert your gaze and attention to the screen. I haven't driven in a Tesla, so maybe they've figured it out.
- mdorazio 11y ago
  Only if you use the steering wheel controls. Despite what others may believe, anything you need to do on the giant touch screen absolutely cannot be done safely while driving.
  - mikeash 11y ago
    I wonder, is there actual evidence that physical buttons are better? I don't doubt that screwing with a touchscreen while driving is dangerous, but I have to wonder about the common wisdom that screwing with physical buttons while driving isn't.
    - skj 11y ago
      This is not evidence per se, but with physical buttons you don't have to take your eyes off the road.
      - mikeash 11y ago
        I wonder how many drivers actually learn their controls that well. Anecdotally (which I realize is worthless, I just don't have anything better to go on) I see a lot of drivers taking their eyes off the road to look at physical buttons, and I was even in a crash where the driver just drove off the road while fiddling with the radio.
        tzs 11y ago
        It probably depends on the design of the physical buttons. I've had cars where the physical buttons were sliders and I usually had to glance at them, especially when there were multiple slides parallel to each other (say for fan speed and hot/cold mix). That's because the part that I had to interact with would be in different places, depending on the current setting. It would require enough feeling around to make sure I had the right control that it would probably be more distracting than a quick glance. My current car (2006 Honda CR-V) uses round buttons for many things. I do not need to glance at them. The fan speed control is always in the same place. The hot/cold mix control is always in the same place. The air routing control is always in the same place. So, if I want to change fan speed, for instance, I reach to the same fixed location every time, and then rotate the knob clockwise or counter-clockwise depending on whether I want to increase or decrease the fan speed. Unlike with sliders, the current setting does not affect what I have to do to find the control or interact with it.
        marcoperaza 11y ago
        It's not just remembering where the buttons are, it's the ease of using them. I don't have to remember the exact position of every button. I can feel for the button if I miss it, I can feel whether I'm fat-fingering other buttons and adjust, and I know when I've successfully pressed the button. This all adds up to me not looking at the dashboard.
      - bobwaycott 11y ago
    - mdorazio 11y ago
      Yes, distraction.gov has some research you might be interested in, based on studies of actual car crashes. Note that the key point is distraction, not necessarily touchscreens by themselves. The problem is that it's impossible to use a touchscreen without looking at it, which means you're not looking at the road, and are thus distracted. NHTSA basically says that if it takes more than a single quick glance to perform an action, it's dangerous. This is why most OEMs lock out the touch screen controls while the car is in motion.
      - thrownaway2424 11y ago
        Ha! most OEMs like which ones? I've never seen a car where the touchscreen controls are locked while driving. At most I've seen ones that either won't let you use a touch keyboard while driving, or that will let you do that, after tapping a warning message about that being dangerous.
        Grishnakh 11y ago
        Mazdas lock out the touchscreens when driving, forcing you to use the "commander" knob instead. And not all functions are available when moving.
        vinay427 11y ago
        Lexus vehicles used to do this, at least back in 2006, so that you could only operate basic functions but could not set navigation destinations, etc. It was a huge pain, but given the touchscreen-only interface it made sense to minimize distractions. With my current car in one of the best designed control wheel UIs in the industry, I can navigate the menus almost exclusively without looking at the display (given some practice).
        kalleboo 11y ago
        I believe it's the law in Japan, or at least they all do it here (in addition to disabling the obligatory built-in TV). Most dealers will pull out the sense wire from the back of the console if you ask them to
        thebakeshow 11y ago
    - superuser2 11y ago
      It should be obvious that keeping your eyes on the road (you learn to use volume and HVAC controls by feel pretty quick) is less dangerous than looking down at a screen.
      - mikeash 11y ago
        I'm wary of obvious things, because so often they turn out to be wrong.
        deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
        superuser2 11y ago
        You really don't believe that watching the road is safer than not watching the road? I appreciate skepticism, but that just seems too extreme.
        mikeash 11y ago
        I'm really not convinced that having your eyes on the road and your attention on your fingers is safer than glancing away. I think it's probably right, but I'd like something better than just "it's obvious!"
        JoeAltmaier 11y ago
        Attention is a funny thing. Talking on a phone with your eyes on the road can take quite a bit of our attention. Its not about the eyes - glancing here or there is what we do all day. Its the mental model in our head - more than one is hard. Imagining the person on the other end of the phone call is a mental model - and it can push the 'road model' right out. So it depends on how much cpu it takes. Not just where we're looking.
    - mikey_p 11y ago
      Are you seriously asking if muscle memory is a thing? Because yes, it's absolutely a thing and anyone that's done much with interfaces would know this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_memory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_memory
      - mikeash 11y ago
        Doesn't that apply to touchscreen interfaces too?
    - alblue 11y ago
      In general aviation aircraft the important levers/buttons are all explicitly sized/shaped/coloured differently to avoid confusion. The last thing you want to happen is come in for landing, reduce your throttle and discover that you've accidentally pulled the mixture/cut-off to kill the engine. Fortunately that's the kind of mistake you only make once ...
      - mikeash 11y ago
        Heh, as if. In my plane, the flaps, spoilers, and landing gear levers are all inches apart, have similar colors, and similar shapes. But yes, clearly they should be. But there's a pretty big difference between critical flight controls and controls for the music or HVAC.
  - robmcm 11y ago
    What if you are not driving, but using auto pilot?
- cynix 11y ago
  I usually engage Autopilot before operating the touchscreen, so that I can take my eyes off the road briefly.
- cstejerean 11y ago
  My Dodge Charger has touch screen control for most functions (but not all). I have not found any trouble operating it while driving, but I'm sure there is a big difference between finding buttons on an 8.4" touchscreen vs 15" or larger.
  - bradlys 11y ago
    I have a 2014 dodge charger. I absolutely abhor the touch screen for just about any function. It's painfully difficult to use without looking as too many buttons are close together and you have to really lean over to operate most of them. I feel it was poorly designed. (Just like having the cupholders behind the shifter) I cannot operate the touch screen reliably without looking at it and even while looking it's still difficult. I'm glad it still has physical controls for most functions although even those aren't very good (it's hard to feel the difference on some of the buttons).
  - i_laugh_at_you 11y ago
    Lots of people text and drive but I wouldn't advise it.
- theseatoms 11y ago
  Relatedly, does anyone have a sense of how far out we are from consumer-grade haptic-feedback touchscreens? Seems like the obvious next step.
  - Grishnakh 11y ago
    >Relatedly, does anyone have a sense of how far out we are from consumer-grade haptic-feedback touchscreens? Well, they had them in Star Trek: The Next Generation. While not actually shown close-up in the show, the technical manual explained that the flat touchscreens actually provided tactile feedback, and of course were reconfigurable. How'd they do it? Simple: according to the technical manual, they used miniature force fields. We're not very close to developing any kind of force fields right now.... On a more serious note, I believe there's been some research into using ultrasonics to provide some kind of tactile feedback. And of course lots of phones now have vibrating feedback.
  - vinay427 11y ago
    The BlackBerry Storm had a haptic system, but it didn't seem to catch on, and it also did not have separate buttons so was not as easy-to-use as a menu with conventional buttons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackBerry_Storm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackBerry_Storm
drakenot 11y ago
Is there a physical button on the steering wheel to pause music playback? I often need to pause audiobooks or podcasts and I really miss it when I don't have a physical button to do this.
- mikeash 11y ago
  Yes, play/pause, volume, and next/previous track are all accessible on the steering wheel. There's also a set of menus on the instrument panel you can navigate entirely with steering wheel buttons, which allows you to control the sunroof, climate control, and other essentials.
swiley 11y ago
I tried to reply to you but I'm on my phone and accidentally hit something else, to get back out I tried to hit the back button but that hit yet another link. Aren't touch screens fun!
buro9 11y ago
What do the passengers do to control the climate for them? Or how does the passenger change the music while you are viewing the map? I really dislike there being only a single control centre. Good for the driver without passengers perhaps, but bad otherwise.
- _ph_ 11y ago
  The climate controls are always shown at the bottom of the screen, independant from what else is going on. Also, most of the time the UI is split into two tiles which show different "apps". So operating one tile does not remove the map from the other. Also, you can display a mini-map on the drivers dashboard screen.

awestley 11y ago

Agreed. I had the same hesitation. Like most things with the Tesla, you need to experience it to truly appreciate it.

marcoperaza 11y ago

Can you safely operate the entertainment system while driving? With physical buttons, I can turn the volume knob or cycle through radio station presets without taking my attention off the road. With a touch screen, you don't get tactile feedback and modal dialogs or different screens can block controls, so you have to divert your gaze and attention to the screen. I haven't driven in a Tesla, so maybe they've figured it out.

mdorazio 11y ago
Only if you use the steering wheel controls. Despite what others may believe, anything you need to do on the giant touch screen absolutely cannot be done safely while driving.
- mikeash 11y ago
  I wonder, is there actual evidence that physical buttons are better? I don't doubt that screwing with a touchscreen while driving is dangerous, but I have to wonder about the common wisdom that screwing with physical buttons while driving isn't.
  - skj 11y ago
    This is not evidence per se, but with physical buttons you don't have to take your eyes off the road.
    - mikeash 11y ago
      I wonder how many drivers actually learn their controls that well. Anecdotally (which I realize is worthless, I just don't have anything better to go on) I see a lot of drivers taking their eyes off the road to look at physical buttons, and I was even in a crash where the driver just drove off the road while fiddling with the radio.
      - tzs 11y ago
        It probably depends on the design of the physical buttons. I've had cars where the physical buttons were sliders and I usually had to glance at them, especially when there were multiple slides parallel to each other (say for fan speed and hot/cold mix). That's because the part that I had to interact with would be in different places, depending on the current setting. It would require enough feeling around to make sure I had the right control that it would probably be more distracting than a quick glance. My current car (2006 Honda CR-V) uses round buttons for many things. I do not need to glance at them. The fan speed control is always in the same place. The hot/cold mix control is always in the same place. The air routing control is always in the same place. So, if I want to change fan speed, for instance, I reach to the same fixed location every time, and then rotate the knob clockwise or counter-clockwise depending on whether I want to increase or decrease the fan speed. Unlike with sliders, the current setting does not affect what I have to do to find the control or interact with it.
      - marcoperaza 11y ago
        It's not just remembering where the buttons are, it's the ease of using them. I don't have to remember the exact position of every button. I can feel for the button if I miss it, I can feel whether I'm fat-fingering other buttons and adjust, and I know when I've successfully pressed the button. This all adds up to me not looking at the dashboard.
    - bobwaycott 11y ago
  - mdorazio 11y ago
    Yes, distraction.gov has some research you might be interested in, based on studies of actual car crashes. Note that the key point is distraction, not necessarily touchscreens by themselves. The problem is that it's impossible to use a touchscreen without looking at it, which means you're not looking at the road, and are thus distracted. NHTSA basically says that if it takes more than a single quick glance to perform an action, it's dangerous. This is why most OEMs lock out the touch screen controls while the car is in motion.
    - thrownaway2424 11y ago
      Ha! most OEMs like which ones? I've never seen a car where the touchscreen controls are locked while driving. At most I've seen ones that either won't let you use a touch keyboard while driving, or that will let you do that, after tapping a warning message about that being dangerous.
      - Grishnakh 11y ago
        Mazdas lock out the touchscreens when driving, forcing you to use the "commander" knob instead. And not all functions are available when moving.
      - vinay427 11y ago
        Lexus vehicles used to do this, at least back in 2006, so that you could only operate basic functions but could not set navigation destinations, etc. It was a huge pain, but given the touchscreen-only interface it made sense to minimize distractions. With my current car in one of the best designed control wheel UIs in the industry, I can navigate the menus almost exclusively without looking at the display (given some practice).
      - kalleboo 11y ago
        I believe it's the law in Japan, or at least they all do it here (in addition to disabling the obligatory built-in TV). Most dealers will pull out the sense wire from the back of the console if you ask them to
      - thebakeshow 11y ago
  - superuser2 11y ago
    It should be obvious that keeping your eyes on the road (you learn to use volume and HVAC controls by feel pretty quick) is less dangerous than looking down at a screen.
    - mikeash 11y ago
      I'm wary of obvious things, because so often they turn out to be wrong.
      - deleted 11y ago
        [deleted]
      - superuser2 11y ago
        You really don't believe that watching the road is safer than not watching the road? I appreciate skepticism, but that just seems too extreme.
        mikeash 11y ago
        I'm really not convinced that having your eyes on the road and your attention on your fingers is safer than glancing away. I think it's probably right, but I'd like something better than just "it's obvious!"
        JoeAltmaier 11y ago
        Attention is a funny thing. Talking on a phone with your eyes on the road can take quite a bit of our attention. Its not about the eyes - glancing here or there is what we do all day. Its the mental model in our head - more than one is hard. Imagining the person on the other end of the phone call is a mental model - and it can push the 'road model' right out. So it depends on how much cpu it takes. Not just where we're looking.
  - mikey_p 11y ago
    Are you seriously asking if muscle memory is a thing? Because yes, it's absolutely a thing and anyone that's done much with interfaces would know this. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_memory https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_memory
    - mikeash 11y ago
      Doesn't that apply to touchscreen interfaces too?
  - alblue 11y ago
    In general aviation aircraft the important levers/buttons are all explicitly sized/shaped/coloured differently to avoid confusion. The last thing you want to happen is come in for landing, reduce your throttle and discover that you've accidentally pulled the mixture/cut-off to kill the engine. Fortunately that's the kind of mistake you only make once ...
    - mikeash 11y ago
      Heh, as if. In my plane, the flaps, spoilers, and landing gear levers are all inches apart, have similar colors, and similar shapes. But yes, clearly they should be. But there's a pretty big difference between critical flight controls and controls for the music or HVAC.
- robmcm 11y ago
  What if you are not driving, but using auto pilot?
cynix 11y ago
I usually engage Autopilot before operating the touchscreen, so that I can take my eyes off the road briefly.
cstejerean 11y ago
My Dodge Charger has touch screen control for most functions (but not all). I have not found any trouble operating it while driving, but I'm sure there is a big difference between finding buttons on an 8.4" touchscreen vs 15" or larger.
- bradlys 11y ago
  I have a 2014 dodge charger. I absolutely abhor the touch screen for just about any function. It's painfully difficult to use without looking as too many buttons are close together and you have to really lean over to operate most of them. I feel it was poorly designed. (Just like having the cupholders behind the shifter) I cannot operate the touch screen reliably without looking at it and even while looking it's still difficult. I'm glad it still has physical controls for most functions although even those aren't very good (it's hard to feel the difference on some of the buttons).
- i_laugh_at_you 11y ago
  Lots of people text and drive but I wouldn't advise it.
theseatoms 11y ago
Relatedly, does anyone have a sense of how far out we are from consumer-grade haptic-feedback touchscreens? Seems like the obvious next step.
- Grishnakh 11y ago
  >Relatedly, does anyone have a sense of how far out we are from consumer-grade haptic-feedback touchscreens? Well, they had them in Star Trek: The Next Generation. While not actually shown close-up in the show, the technical manual explained that the flat touchscreens actually provided tactile feedback, and of course were reconfigurable. How'd they do it? Simple: according to the technical manual, they used miniature force fields. We're not very close to developing any kind of force fields right now.... On a more serious note, I believe there's been some research into using ultrasonics to provide some kind of tactile feedback. And of course lots of phones now have vibrating feedback.
- vinay427 11y ago
  The BlackBerry Storm had a haptic system, but it didn't seem to catch on, and it also did not have separate buttons so was not as easy-to-use as a menu with conventional buttons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackBerry_Storm https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlackBerry_Storm

drakenot 11y ago

Is there a physical button on the steering wheel to pause music playback? I often need to pause audiobooks or podcasts and I really miss it when I don't have a physical button to do this.

mikeash 11y ago
Yes, play/pause, volume, and next/previous track are all accessible on the steering wheel. There's also a set of menus on the instrument panel you can navigate entirely with steering wheel buttons, which allows you to control the sunroof, climate control, and other essentials.

swiley 11y ago

I tried to reply to you but I'm on my phone and accidentally hit something else, to get back out I tried to hit the back button but that hit yet another link. Aren't touch screens fun!

buro9 11y ago

What do the passengers do to control the climate for them? Or how does the passenger change the music while you are viewing the map? I really dislike there being only a single control centre. Good for the driver without passengers perhaps, but bad otherwise.

_ph_ 11y ago
The climate controls are always shown at the bottom of the screen, independant from what else is going on. Also, most of the time the UI is split into two tiles which show different "apps". So operating one tile does not remove the map from the other. Also, you can display a mini-map on the drivers dashboard screen.