4 ms·

You Can't Launch the Next Generation of Startups Without Women

10 points by jolie 17y ago

patio11 17y ago
I can't help feel there is a little tension between: 1) Women founders are disproportionately in their 40s, with families and careers and mortgages. We can't be expected to drop everything and fly across the country to attend a startup incubator program. Instead, we need to receive large amounts of money on the strength of a napkin or Powerpoint deck. 2) Those darn twenty something male techies keep wanting to get paid salaries. Don't they know they're supposed to work for free in promise for 2% of the profits after we get rich? Tell you what, ladies: I didn't crawl out of the womb knowing how to build web applications. I studied it in school and then made stuff. How's about y'all bang away on that for the next twenty years or so, and then I'll give you the napkin to implement. You can have 2% of the profits after you make me rich. Sounds like a great deal, right?
- tptacek 17y ago
  This article is incoherent and you appear to be both dignifying it and contradicting yourself. How un-McKenzian of you! First, barely a cobweb strand of logic connects the point of this article to gender. "If I had a nickle for every time I've heard that you can't get a startup founded without an engineer". What does this have to do women? Either of my younger brothers (both of whom work in the arts) could make the same complaint. Second, the idea that funding and attention is inappropriately piled on a narrow slice of young males is a point I think I've seen you make about 100 times on Hacker News. (If I wanted to further engage with this article --- and I don't, really --- I'd also point out that the "accelerators" and "incubators" and whatnots that this author feels women are excluded from aren't really blessings. A point I feel like you'd at least sympathize with, since you built your company up on 5 hours a week of downtime off being a salaryman).
  - patio11 17y ago
    I don't think it is a contradiction to say "Tech people overbuild for tech people" and "If you want tech people to work for you, paying them market wages is kind of a good idea." (I agree that there are a bunch of options aside from "seek funding" and "draw yourself into the Valley culture" if you want to think outside the box for your startup. No money, no time, can build stuff: I have useful suggestions for you. No money, no time, can't build stuff? I have no useful suggestions for you, aside from "well, learn to build stuff and then we'll talk.")
nazgulnarsil 17y ago
watch me.
patrickgzill 17y ago
I don't really like this article, in that I know of plenty of successful startups started by women or that had a lot of women involved during the early days. In short, I reject the idea there is any kind of glass ceiling or whatnot, especially when "the idea" plus 3 knowledgeable people working out of a garage, is all you need.
- tptacek 17y ago
  There's definitely a pervasive strain of sexism running through our industry. I laughed at it right up until my wife tried to re-enter the workforce a few years after we got married.
  - dschobel 17y ago
    There's sexism running through all of society. Finding it in a tech company is hardly a feat worth mentioning.
    - tptacek 17y ago
      It appears to be worse in the tech industry. Do I believe that VCs might discriminate against women engineering founders? Well, I can believe a lot of things about VCs.
- bootload 17y ago
  "... I don't really like this article, in that I know of plenty of successful startups started by women ..." Examples? Part of the problem is perception of avoidance and the other problem, Women tech founders are scarce.
  - patrickgzill 17y ago
    In the pre-dotbomb days, there was Ravisent, which made DVD decoder software and hardware, they were later acquired by ST Micro. Yes, the main founders were 2 guys, but a lot of women were involved in the early days (when there were less than 25 employees), including the woman in her 40s who ran the procurement and scheduling for the hardware line; a senior VP in charge of all marketing who had previously been at ATT and Toshiba; and over half the sales team was composed of women. There was ArsDigita started by Phil Greenspun, Jin Choi and Tracy Adams, IIRC. I will sort of waffle a little bit here, in that there are many successful businesses I know of that are not on the going-public or being-acquired track. I will freely admit that I know of less "basic research" type companies that have women founders.
dschobel 17y ago
[...] Today non-technical entrepreneurs are just as likely to come up with viable startup concepts as programmers are. Neither the startup system, nor the traditional support system for small, brick-and-mortar businesses reflect this societal change yet, so there is a void that needs to be filled or we'll miss out on opportunities for innovation from unlikely sources. Non-engineering women, I'd like to meet every non-engineering MBA trying to break into startups. You guys should talk. I think you'll find you have a lot in common.
jcnnghm 17y ago
There is more than one right way to start a business. The establishment doesn't need to change, nothing precludes women from figuring out their own way.
camccann 17y ago
There's a very good point buried in this article: Technology-oriented startups tend to have some heavily skewed demographics, not just in gender, but in socioeconomic background, political leanings, tastes in entertainment, etc, and the kind of things startups do tend to reflect those demographics--which isn't unreasonable, since it's easier to market to one's own general peer group. So it does seem likely that there are startup opportunities that get overlooked because they don't appeal as strongly to the stereotypical programmer demographic. That said, I'm not sure what manner of confusion would lead to using the term "entrepreneur" for someone who has neither the resources to fund their "big idea" nor the skills to implement it. If you have an idea and want to make it happen, just go do it. If you don't know how, learn. It's not that hard!
bootload 17y ago
"... There are two things happening here. First, the suits are taking over and, second, the pioneers are going gray. Together they make up the startup establishment. But things have changed since the early days, and this establishment hasn't kept up with the times. The current startup system essentially excludes the untapped pool of innovators who aren't developers - for example, women who want to launch Internet startups. ..." I see a lot more interest in women wanting to create startup companies but not a tech startup. I'm not entirely sure why? I have a suspicion that it has to do with being seen to be geeky, being seen to stand out. Apart from the fact there are fewer women techies, I've also read articles describing younger women being sensitive to peer signaling. [0] I suspect younger women who choose technical and founder paths have to overcome this. Older women founders have the skills, confidence to not be distracted. [0] I'll find the article. It was about young women watching for signaling for mate selection as a evolutionary shortcut. I wager this is one factor underestimated. Other females think Startup's are risky, the rest sans a few take notice.
elptacek 17y ago
psst: www.makeupalley.com <-- has been around for at least 10 years. lots of copycats, but i'm pretty sure it was the first of its kind. certainly the first social networking site i joined; makeup alley predates orkut. founded by a woman named hara glick. my point? women are consumers. they will buy stuff. just ask tony hsieh. even make has a craft mag. so put your metrosexual shoes on and find yourself some girl friends.

10 points by jolie 17y ago

I can't help feel there is a little tension between: 1) Women founders are disproportionately in their 40s, with families and careers and mortgages. We can't be expected to drop everything and fly across the country to attend a startup incubator program. Instead, we need to receive large amounts of money on the strength of a napkin or Powerpoint deck. 2) Those darn twenty something male techies keep wanting to get paid salaries. Don't they know they're supposed to work for free in promise for 2% of the profits after we get rich? Tell you what, ladies: I didn't crawl out of the womb knowing how to build web applications. I studied it in school and then made stuff. How's about y'all bang away on that for the next twenty years or so, and then I'll give you the napkin to implement. You can have 2% of the profits after you make me rich. Sounds like a great deal, right?

tptacek 17y ago
This article is incoherent and you appear to be both dignifying it and contradicting yourself. How un-McKenzian of you! First, barely a cobweb strand of logic connects the point of this article to gender. "If I had a nickle for every time I've heard that you can't get a startup founded without an engineer". What does this have to do women? Either of my younger brothers (both of whom work in the arts) could make the same complaint. Second, the idea that funding and attention is inappropriately piled on a narrow slice of young males is a point I think I've seen you make about 100 times on Hacker News. (If I wanted to further engage with this article --- and I don't, really --- I'd also point out that the "accelerators" and "incubators" and whatnots that this author feels women are excluded from aren't really blessings. A point I feel like you'd at least sympathize with, since you built your company up on 5 hours a week of downtime off being a salaryman).
- patio11 17y ago
  I don't think it is a contradiction to say "Tech people overbuild for tech people" and "If you want tech people to work for you, paying them market wages is kind of a good idea." (I agree that there are a bunch of options aside from "seek funding" and "draw yourself into the Valley culture" if you want to think outside the box for your startup. No money, no time, can build stuff: I have useful suggestions for you. No money, no time, can't build stuff? I have no useful suggestions for you, aside from "well, learn to build stuff and then we'll talk.")

nazgulnarsil 17y ago

watch me.

patrickgzill 17y ago

I don't really like this article, in that I know of plenty of successful startups started by women or that had a lot of women involved during the early days. In short, I reject the idea there is any kind of glass ceiling or whatnot, especially when "the idea" plus 3 knowledgeable people working out of a garage, is all you need.

tptacek 17y ago
There's definitely a pervasive strain of sexism running through our industry. I laughed at it right up until my wife tried to re-enter the workforce a few years after we got married.
- dschobel 17y ago
  There's sexism running through all of society. Finding it in a tech company is hardly a feat worth mentioning.
  - tptacek 17y ago
    It appears to be worse in the tech industry. Do I believe that VCs might discriminate against women engineering founders? Well, I can believe a lot of things about VCs.
bootload 17y ago
"... I don't really like this article, in that I know of plenty of successful startups started by women ..." Examples? Part of the problem is perception of avoidance and the other problem, Women tech founders are scarce.
- patrickgzill 17y ago
  In the pre-dotbomb days, there was Ravisent, which made DVD decoder software and hardware, they were later acquired by ST Micro. Yes, the main founders were 2 guys, but a lot of women were involved in the early days (when there were less than 25 employees), including the woman in her 40s who ran the procurement and scheduling for the hardware line; a senior VP in charge of all marketing who had previously been at ATT and Toshiba; and over half the sales team was composed of women. There was ArsDigita started by Phil Greenspun, Jin Choi and Tracy Adams, IIRC. I will sort of waffle a little bit here, in that there are many successful businesses I know of that are not on the going-public or being-acquired track. I will freely admit that I know of less "basic research" type companies that have women founders.

dschobel 17y ago

[...] Today non-technical entrepreneurs are just as likely to come up with viable startup concepts as programmers are. Neither the startup system, nor the traditional support system for small, brick-and-mortar businesses reflect this societal change yet, so there is a void that needs to be filled or we'll miss out on opportunities for innovation from unlikely sources. Non-engineering women, I'd like to meet every non-engineering MBA trying to break into startups. You guys should talk. I think you'll find you have a lot in common.

jcnnghm 17y ago

There is more than one right way to start a business. The establishment doesn't need to change, nothing precludes women from figuring out their own way.

camccann 17y ago

There's a very good point buried in this article: Technology-oriented startups tend to have some heavily skewed demographics, not just in gender, but in socioeconomic background, political leanings, tastes in entertainment, etc, and the kind of things startups do tend to reflect those demographics--which isn't unreasonable, since it's easier to market to one's own general peer group. So it does seem likely that there are startup opportunities that get overlooked because they don't appeal as strongly to the stereotypical programmer demographic. That said, I'm not sure what manner of confusion would lead to using the term "entrepreneur" for someone who has neither the resources to fund their "big idea" nor the skills to implement it. If you have an idea and want to make it happen, just go do it. If you don't know how, learn. It's not that hard!

bootload 17y ago

"... There are two things happening here. First, the suits are taking over and, second, the pioneers are going gray. Together they make up the startup establishment. But things have changed since the early days, and this establishment hasn't kept up with the times. The current startup system essentially excludes the untapped pool of innovators who aren't developers - for example, women who want to launch Internet startups. ..." I see a lot more interest in women wanting to create startup companies but not a tech startup. I'm not entirely sure why? I have a suspicion that it has to do with being seen to be geeky, being seen to stand out. Apart from the fact there are fewer women techies, I've also read articles describing younger women being sensitive to peer signaling. [0] I suspect younger women who choose technical and founder paths have to overcome this. Older women founders have the skills, confidence to not be distracted. [0] I'll find the article. It was about young women watching for signaling for mate selection as a evolutionary shortcut. I wager this is one factor underestimated. Other females think Startup's are risky, the rest sans a few take notice.

elptacek 17y ago

psst: www.makeupalley.com <-- has been around for at least 10 years. lots of copycats, but i'm pretty sure it was the first of its kind. certainly the first social networking site i joined; makeup alley predates orkut. founded by a woman named hara glick. my point? women are consumers. they will buy stuff. just ask tony hsieh. even make has a craft mag. so put your metrosexual shoes on and find yourself some girl friends.